BrainModular

couple more questions about usine for my uses...

2009-07-10T15:23:32+02:00

works great in my setup, i believe i have it colourless now. thank you so much with the help everyone.

Statistics: Posted by beatniks3 — 10 Jul 2009, 15:23

couple more questions about usine for my uses...

2009-07-10T14:14:36+02:00

yeah thanks bsork, up early here to start working this into my project

Statistics: Posted by beatniks3 — 10 Jul 2009, 14:14

couple more questions about usine for my uses...

2009-07-10T12:31:47+02:00

The only thing you have to do invert the phase of the audio, is to multiply it with -1, for example with the -X module. Simple as that!!

oh, so simple, thx bsork, why didn't i try that! worth using that then.

Statistics: Posted by 23fx23 — 10 Jul 2009, 12:31

couple more questions about usine for my uses...

2009-07-10T08:15:57+02:00

As far as I know, most modules in Usine don't have any latency. The exception I guess would the FFT modules.

If you take the output from the filter module and subtract it from the unfiltered audio, you get what you want. If the filter is in LP mode, the "original audio - low passed" output will be a high passed version of the audio. If you want to check the result, add the low and high passed and you should get the original. To do a further check, you can substract that audio from the original and get silence.

In this slightly silly example, you'll hear the original audio. Remove the connection between the filter and the audio out, and you get a high passed version (if the filter is set to LP). If you keep the connection between the filter and audio out, and instead add a connection between -X.out to audio out, you should get total cancellation.

Statistics: Posted by bsork — 10 Jul 2009, 08:15

couple more questions about usine for my uses...

2009-07-10T07:53:10+02:00

thank you for clearing that up bsork. in the patching subforum post i made, 23fx23 shows a working example, including how to delay the dry audio before it is summed with the inverted lowpass, to compensate for processing time.

do you know if there is any rule of thumb to this processing time?

thanks

Statistics: Posted by beatniks3 — 10 Jul 2009, 07:53

couple more questions about usine for my uses...

2009-07-10T07:37:35+02:00

The invert phase of the delay module is only for the feedback loop - typical used on modulated short delay times for flanging and stuff like that. The only thing you have to do invert the phase of the audio, is to multiply it with -1, for example with the -X module. Simple as that!!

Statistics: Posted by bsork — 10 Jul 2009, 07:37

couple more questions about usine for my uses...

2009-07-09T18:34:10+02:00

thank you, the pic would be handy when you have time, i can't seem to get it

Statistics: Posted by beatniks3 — 09 Jul 2009, 18:34

couple more questions about usine for my uses...

2009-07-09T18:29:41+02:00

ive not usine here, will try to make a pic when possible in the other tread. yes, subtract mean adding the inverted phase.
but you just need one filter LP then. dry to filter LP outputs LP, from that LP you inverse the phase with delay module and add it to dry, sum of booth should be hp.

Statistics: Posted by 23fx23 — 09 Jul 2009, 18:29

couple more questions about usine for my uses...

2009-07-09T15:24:30+02:00

posted a new thread in patching but here is the pic but i don't think i'm doing it right? do i need to subtract the inverted from the original? i might be confusing myself but i thought you add the inverse phase to the main

thanks so much.

edit i should say i'm just testing with the left channel

Statistics: Posted by beatniks3 — 09 Jul 2009, 15:24

couple more questions about usine for my uses...

2009-07-09T14:38:26+02:00

yup you're right. should work at 0 and invert phase.

Statistics: Posted by 23fx23 — 09 Jul 2009, 14:38

couple more questions about usine for my uses...

2009-07-09T14:32:28+02:00

i see the delay module has a phase invert too, could a person use that with delay at zero?

thanks

Statistics: Posted by beatniks3 — 09 Jul 2009, 14:32

couple more questions about usine for my uses...

2009-07-09T14:21:25+02:00

thanks for the fast reply, still gchatting with bentosan so we are looking at this together. i think you got the right idea. i'll try it and see what happens.

Statistics: Posted by beatniks3 — 09 Jul 2009, 14:21

couple more questions about usine for my uses...

2009-07-09T14:14:33+02:00

i think it's based on the phase. you have to make ie the lp filtered signal , then "subtract" this to the dry signal by inverting it's phase, the result should be the high pass. have to test but as audio sig seems to go from 0 to 1, thing the same trick 1-audio should act as a phase invert..

Statistics: Posted by 23fx23 — 09 Jul 2009, 14:14

couple more questions about usine for my uses...

2009-07-09T14:05:19+02:00

hi again, talking with bentosan more, i see an area i can improve my mixer. if you look in his diagram you see he doesn't use a highpass filter for filtering the highpass but instead uses an inverted lowpass filter. i believe the idea is that you would have the same settings on both lowpass filters (the one actually lowpassing and the one being inverted) so there is no colouring of the sound.

need to think out an invert trick for usine.

Statistics: Posted by beatniks3 — 09 Jul 2009, 14:05

couple more questions about usine for my uses...

2009-07-06T16:58:09+02:00

thanks for responding so quickly and giving me some ideas on how to set it up. i'll keep working on it and let you know how it goes.

the invert in ableton is very handy.

Statistics: Posted by beatniks3 — 06 Jul 2009, 16:58

couple more questions about usine for my uses...

2009-07-06T16:41:15+02:00

hi beatniks, yup you're right to invert (it's cause i did the same with ableton, was invering range in ableton, forgot..).
indeed if you don't need midi messages there must be a simpler way, you won't need everything that go to "create", but more using the "pass" module, that will let pass code 2 only if cc is your pot cc, globally I think you can remove the create midi modules and replace them by some "pass" where what was going to code2 goes to in, and what went to create goes to pass inlet of the pass module. there must be a way to simplify the HP path a bit also..but you start to well understand, im sure you ll manage to do it..
see ya'

Statistics: Posted by 23fx23 — 06 Jul 2009, 16:41

couple more questions about usine for my uses...

2009-07-06T15:35:41+02:00

hi again, working on the patch, here is a pic of what i did, i'll go back and try to refine it as i dont really need a midi out message.

the A-B module after the lo is A=127 to invert the fader otherwise the left hand part of the 2in1 knob still went from 0-127 and then the right hand part of the 2in1 knob 0-127. now it is left hand part of the knob 127-0, and right hand part of the knob 0-127

thanks

Statistics: Posted by beatniks3 — 06 Jul 2009, 15:35

couple more questions about usine for my uses...

2009-07-05T20:52:29+02:00

thank you very much and you're right, that is a good idea to ask specific questions in the particular subforum.

that's a wonderful design.

Statistics: Posted by beatniks3 — 05 Jul 2009, 20:52

couple more questions about usine for my uses...

2009-07-05T20:13:01+02:00

The midi fader is just differently labeled, it displays values as notes, if you want to do operations on midi you need to put a midi in module from there you get the midi infos yes.
then if you move a pot you should see the led blink on incoming data, and if your CC of pot is 5, you should see code1 is 5 and code 2 is the value from 0 to 127. then you can make math operation on value (code2) ie with logical modules ab
to say if code2 is from 0 to 64, then create a new message (midi mess for LP), note you should then X2 the value otherwise max will be 64, and if superior at 64, will create the mess for LP.

this is one solution:

ps: don't take it as a blame, but maybe try now to post specific questions in "paching question" thread, some may be interested by same things, easier to refind..
Statistics: Posted by 23fx23 — 05 Jul 2009, 20:13

couple more questions about usine for my uses...

2009-07-05T19:28:38+02:00
hope to get a better understanding of the midi in usine. say i have a fader that i midi learn to be controlled by a fader on my midi controller. is there a way to see the midi data lines the occur with midi learn so that you can insert for example math modules.

or do you have to add a midi in module and then attach that module to the fader (and add the math modules between the midi in and fader?

hope it makes sense what i'm asking.

because i want to create a fader or knob with dual functions for example a high/low pass filter knob on a dj mixer. so at .5 both high and low pass are off, at 0 low pass is at full and at 1 high pass is at full. I can do this in bomes.

should i be working with the "fader midi" module instead of a regular fader module?

thanks
Statistics: Posted by beatniks3 — 05 Jul 2009, 19:28

couple more questions about usine for my uses...

2009-07-04T13:36:22+02:00
thank you that works great!
Statistics: Posted by beatniks3 — 04 Jul 2009, 13:36

couple more questions about usine for my uses...

2009-07-04T08:58:03+02:00
yes there is a module in syncro/time called master sync. drop it in your patch. there is a tempo input on wich you can put a fader
that have min 120 max 135 range.
Statistics: Posted by 23fx23 — 04 Jul 2009, 08:58

couple more questions about usine for my uses...

2009-07-04T04:21:17+02:00
thank you.

say is there a way to limit the range of the master tempo to allow for finer resolutions when controlling it with a midi controller? in my setup i'll probably never go to far below 120 and to high about say 135 so it would be nice to have that range.
Statistics: Posted by beatniks3 — 04 Jul 2009, 04:21

couple more questions about usine for my uses...

2009-07-04T02:52:26+02:00
cool, good luck on your setup! and don'y hesitate if you feel you're blocked, an other usiner often had a solution for me when i felt i was turning around..
Statistics: Posted by 23fx23 — 04 Jul 2009, 02:52

couple more questions about usine for my uses...

2009-07-03T15:35:27+02:00
started working on my samples, vox, mash-up channel.

to answer my original question, usine is the ideal environment for my setup
Statistics: Posted by beatniks3 — 03 Jul 2009, 15:35

couple more questions about usine for my uses...

2009-07-10T15:23:32+02:00
works great in my setup, i believe i have it colourless now. thank you so much with the help everyone.
Statistics: Posted by beatniks3 — 10 Jul 2009, 15:23

couple more questions about usine for my uses...

2009-07-10T14:14:36+02:00
yeah thanks bsork, up early here to start working this into my project
Statistics: Posted by beatniks3 — 10 Jul 2009, 14:14

couple more questions about usine for my uses...

2009-07-10T12:31:47+02:00

The only thing you have to do invert the phase of the audio, is to multiply it with -1, for example with the -X module. Simple as that!!
oh, so simple, thx bsork, why didn't i try that! worth using that then.
Statistics: Posted by 23fx23 — 10 Jul 2009, 12:31

couple more questions about usine for my uses...

2009-07-10T08:15:57+02:00
As far as I know, most modules in Usine don't have any latency. The exception I guess would the FFT modules.

If you take the output from the filter module and subtract it from the unfiltered audio, you get what you want. If the filter is in LP mode, the "original audio - low passed" output will be a high passed version of the audio. If you want to check the result, add the low and high passed and you should get the original. To do a further check, you can substract that audio from the original and get silence.

In this slightly silly example, you'll hear the original audio. Remove the connection between the filter and the audio out, and you get a high passed version (if the filter is set to LP). If you keep the connection between the filter and audio out, and instead add a connection between -X.out to audio out, you should get total cancellation.
Statistics: Posted by bsork — 10 Jul 2009, 08:15

couple more questions about usine for my uses...

2009-07-10T07:53:10+02:00
thank you for clearing that up bsork. in the patching subforum post i made, 23fx23 shows a working example, including how to delay the dry audio before it is summed with the inverted lowpass, to compensate for processing time.

do you know if there is any rule of thumb to this processing time?

thanks
Statistics: Posted by beatniks3 — 10 Jul 2009, 07:53

couple more questions about usine for my uses...

2009-07-10T07:37:35+02:00
The invert phase of the delay module is only for the feedback loop - typical used on modulated short delay times for flanging and stuff like that. The only thing you have to do invert the phase of the audio, is to multiply it with -1, for example with the -X module. Simple as that!!
Statistics: Posted by bsork — 10 Jul 2009, 07:37

couple more questions about usine for my uses...

2009-07-09T18:34:10+02:00
thank you, the pic would be handy when you have time, i can't seem to get it
Statistics: Posted by beatniks3 — 09 Jul 2009, 18:34

couple more questions about usine for my uses...

2009-07-09T18:29:41+02:00
ive not usine here, will try to make a pic when possible in the other tread. yes, subtract mean adding the inverted phase.
but you just need one filter LP then. dry to filter LP outputs LP, from that LP you inverse the phase with delay module and add it to dry, sum of booth should be hp.
Statistics: Posted by 23fx23 — 09 Jul 2009, 18:29

couple more questions about usine for my uses...

2009-07-09T15:24:30+02:00
posted a new thread in patching but here is the pic but i don't think i'm doing it right? do i need to subtract the inverted from the original? i might be confusing myself but i thought you add the inverse phase to the main

thanks so much.

edit i should say i'm just testing with the left channel
Statistics: Posted by beatniks3 — 09 Jul 2009, 15:24

couple more questions about usine for my uses...

2009-07-09T14:38:26+02:00
yup you're right. should work at 0 and invert phase.
Statistics: Posted by 23fx23 — 09 Jul 2009, 14:38

couple more questions about usine for my uses...

2009-07-09T14:32:28+02:00
i see the delay module has a phase invert too, could a person use that with delay at zero?

thanks
Statistics: Posted by beatniks3 — 09 Jul 2009, 14:32

couple more questions about usine for my uses...

2009-07-09T14:21:25+02:00
thanks for the fast reply, still gchatting with bentosan so we are looking at this together. i think you got the right idea. i'll try it and see what happens.
Statistics: Posted by beatniks3 — 09 Jul 2009, 14:21

couple more questions about usine for my uses...

2009-07-09T14:14:33+02:00
i think it's based on the phase. you have to make ie the lp filtered signal , then "subtract" this to the dry signal by inverting it's phase, the result should be the high pass. have to test but as audio sig seems to go from 0 to 1, thing the same trick 1-audio should act as a phase invert..
Statistics: Posted by 23fx23 — 09 Jul 2009, 14:14

couple more questions about usine for my uses...

2009-07-09T14:05:19+02:00
hi again, talking with bentosan more, i see an area i can improve my mixer. if you look in his diagram you see he doesn't use a highpass filter for filtering the highpass but instead uses an inverted lowpass filter. i believe the idea is that you would have the same settings on both lowpass filters (the one actually lowpassing and the one being inverted) so there is no colouring of the sound.

need to think out an invert trick for usine.
Statistics: Posted by beatniks3 — 09 Jul 2009, 14:05

couple more questions about usine for my uses...

2009-07-06T16:58:09+02:00
thanks for responding so quickly and giving me some ideas on how to set it up. i'll keep working on it and let you know how it goes.

the invert in ableton is very handy.
Statistics: Posted by beatniks3 — 06 Jul 2009, 16:58

couple more questions about usine for my uses...

2009-07-06T16:41:15+02:00
hi beatniks, yup you're right to invert (it's cause i did the same with ableton, was invering range in ableton, forgot..).
indeed if you don't need midi messages there must be a simpler way, you won't need everything that go to "create", but more using the "pass" module, that will let pass code 2 only if cc is your pot cc, globally I think you can remove the create midi modules and replace them by some "pass" where what was going to code2 goes to in, and what went to create goes to pass inlet of the pass module. there must be a way to simplify the HP path a bit also..but you start to well understand, im sure you ll manage to do it..
see ya'
Statistics: Posted by 23fx23 — 06 Jul 2009, 16:41

couple more questions about usine for my uses...

2009-07-06T15:35:41+02:00
hi again, working on the patch, here is a pic of what i did, i'll go back and try to refine it as i dont really need a midi out message.

the A-B module after the lo is A=127 to invert the fader otherwise the left hand part of the 2in1 knob still went from 0-127 and then the right hand part of the 2in1 knob 0-127. now it is left hand part of the knob 127-0, and right hand part of the knob 0-127

thanks
Statistics: Posted by beatniks3 — 06 Jul 2009, 15:35

couple more questions about usine for my uses...

2009-07-05T20:52:29+02:00
thank you very much and you're right, that is a good idea to ask specific questions in the particular subforum.

that's a wonderful design.
Statistics: Posted by beatniks3 — 05 Jul 2009, 20:52

couple more questions about usine for my uses...

2009-07-05T20:13:01+02:00
The midi fader is just differently labeled, it displays values as notes, if you want to do operations on midi you need to put a midi in module from there you get the midi infos yes.
then if you move a pot you should see the led blink on incoming data, and if your CC of pot is 5, you should see code1 is 5 and code 2 is the value from 0 to 127. then you can make math operation on value (code2) ie with logical modules ab
to say if code2 is from 0 to 64, then create a new message (midi mess for LP), note you should then X2 the value otherwise max will be 64, and if superior at 64, will create the mess for LP.

this is one solution:

ps: don't take it as a blame, but maybe try now to post specific questions in "paching question" thread, some may be interested by same things, easier to refind..
Statistics: Posted by 23fx23 — 05 Jul 2009, 20:13

couple more questions about usine for my uses...

2009-07-05T19:28:38+02:00
hope to get a better understanding of the midi in usine. say i have a fader that i midi learn to be controlled by a fader on my midi controller. is there a way to see the midi data lines the occur with midi learn so that you can insert for example math modules.

or do you have to add a midi in module and then attach that module to the fader (and add the math modules between the midi in and fader?

hope it makes sense what i'm asking.

because i want to create a fader or knob with dual functions for example a high/low pass filter knob on a dj mixer. so at .5 both high and low pass are off, at 0 low pass is at full and at 1 high pass is at full. I can do this in bomes.

should i be working with the "fader midi" module instead of a regular fader module?

thanks
Statistics: Posted by beatniks3 — 05 Jul 2009, 19:28

couple more questions about usine for my uses...

2009-07-04T13:36:22+02:00
thank you that works great!
Statistics: Posted by beatniks3 — 04 Jul 2009, 13:36

couple more questions about usine for my uses...

2009-07-04T08:58:03+02:00
yes there is a module in syncro/time called master sync. drop it in your patch. there is a tempo input on wich you can put a fader
that have min 120 max 135 range.
Statistics: Posted by 23fx23 — 04 Jul 2009, 08:58

couple more questions about usine for my uses...

2009-07-04T04:21:17+02:00
thank you.

say is there a way to limit the range of the master tempo to allow for finer resolutions when controlling it with a midi controller? in my setup i'll probably never go to far below 120 and to high about say 135 so it would be nice to have that range.
Statistics: Posted by beatniks3 — 04 Jul 2009, 04:21

couple more questions about usine for my uses...

2009-07-04T02:52:26+02:00
cool, good luck on your setup! and don'y hesitate if you feel you're blocked, an other usiner often had a solution for me when i felt i was turning around..
Statistics: Posted by 23fx23 — 04 Jul 2009, 02:52

couple more questions about usine for my uses...

2009-07-03T15:35:27+02:00
started working on my samples, vox, mash-up channel.

to answer my original question, usine is the ideal environment for my setup
Statistics: Posted by beatniks3 — 03 Jul 2009, 15:35