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joojoo1234 · Unread post by **joojoo1234** » 15 May 2007, 20:05

Learning Usine... wanting multichannel file support and vst version as a substitute for rewire... by the way if rewire is a money thing perhaps we could all donate it... but I think I read somewhere that vst is easier to implement than rewire which seems surprising to me for some reason... I have no programming experience whatsoever could be one! Anyway and I see that Senso is going to bring both of them... Awesome. I am hoping that the vst could be out by Aug or Sept and if I am way off timeline don't kill me as I have no idea of the work involved. But I would pay some for that upgrade.

YouTube · Unread post by **senso** » 16 May 2007, 09:58

hello,
The rewire licencing procedure is very long and fastidious. That the main reason.
Also, with a good sound card (RME) you can make your personal intern "rewire" to communicate with other softs.

The Vst version is an hard job but not impossible. The structure of Usine is really designed to be a Vst Host, not a plugin.
I plan to to that this summer.

Vincent · Unread post by **Vincent** » 16 May 2007, 23:48

Hosting Usine?

What for?

Oh, yes, I see: to host Usine with Usine.
That could be interesting...

Vincent · Unread post by **Vincent** » 16 May 2007, 23:49

Hosting Usine as a VST?

What for?

Oh, yes, I see: to host Usine with Usine.
That could be interesting...

webmammuth · Unread post by **webmammuth** » 17 May 2007, 08:31

Vincent wrote:Hosting Usine as a VST?

What for?

Oh, yes, I see: to host Usine with Usine.
That could be interesting...

Could Be Usefull to Chain Vst Instruments in a unusual way, and use them in a timed sequencer...
For recording maybe... Not for live session that's sure.

joojoo1234 · Unread post by **joojoo1234** » 17 May 2007, 09:50

Well as I am getting to know Usine today and reading its more about giving flexibility that tracktion or even energy doesn't have rather then giving usine more flexibility. Anyway.... why am I posting, I am just learning it.
Seems cool and it is the program I am using for my violin and synthesis project. I am thinking of adding reaktor as my last purchase.

YouTube · Unread post by **senso** » 17 May 2007, 11:06

Reaktor is a perfect companion for Usine!

bsork · Unread post by **bsork** » 17 May 2007, 21:13

I haven't tried it myself, but it should be possible to run something as energyXT as a VST inside Usine. eXT and I think some other hosts (I've forgotten which) can also run as plugins.

joojoo1234 · Unread post by **joojoo1234** » 18 May 2007, 05:57

Yep. Not all DAW's run as a vst as you know, that's all. Spent hours today learning and reading up on Usine. Senso is not going to go to all the work of a vst unless he can think of valid reasons why that would be useful I assume. I think it is that if I have tracktion and not energy or don't want to buy or learn a "run as plug app" that I can't add live capabilities with Usine and instead have to use one with rewire.
The manual is good by the way. Happy with what I have learned.

damstraversaz · Unread post by **damstraversaz** » 18 May 2007, 12:10

vst version could be very useful. for exemple I use a lot energyXT with usine for the sequencer of xt and for the very good sampler of xt.if I could use usine as a vst and energy as an host...
for developement, it could be interesting : no need to developpe a sequencer for usine
and for business plan, it could be very good for usine: most people I know bought energy xt because it could be use as a vst.

YouTube · Unread post by **senso** » 18 May 2007, 21:19

hello, interesting discussion.
What to do VST version, rewire?
I'm really fixed now.
I think that the power of Usine comes from the host conception, especially for live situation.
The easier solution should be to create simplified version, to be able to open a single patch as a VST instrument?

YouTube · Unread post by **senso** » 18 May 2007, 21:21

hello, interesting discussion.
What to do VST version, rewire?
I'm really fixed now.
I think that the power of Usine comes from the host conception, especially for live situation.
The easier solution should be to create simplified version, to be able to open a single patch as a VST instrument?

joojoo1234 · Unread post by **joojoo1234** » 18 May 2007, 22:09

I will never post this long again.
I am not doing the programing work so its easy for me to say. I have to say that Bidule has rewire and I hate that someone would possibly ignore Usine for the lack or rewire or full vst implementation. To grow Usine I think its important to remember that going into it he has no knowledge of Usine and you first have to get him through the door. I almost went with Bidule because of rewire but chose Usine, - why? I read statements along the lines of "turning your computer into a real interactive instrument to accompany a live performer" just what I am wanting. Also - "complete surround sound" etc... Marketing got me looking and overcame the rewire and "is usine a plug as well" stuff. I am happy with my decision. I hate to say it but I think people want to read the word "rewire". It is marketed well. I also think people are curious about running a host app as a vst plug - is the sequencer going to work in the plug? Does the blah blah of a host as plug communicate outside the plug? I think people are suspicious of running things that are hosts as plugs (which are usually effects) and have seen a few posts on kvr related to this. I think rewire implies two solid hosts communicating well through a protocol that is becoming more and more desired. I AM ASSUMING REWIRE CAN DO SURROUND, if not go vst but if it can - I say go rewire. Get em through the door with a big rewire logo on your page. The persons applications that are not rewire capable and wish for a vst plug are going to become fewer and fewer in my (very limited) opinion. I am a newbie so I hope that I am not overstepping and being overly opinionated. If Cakewalk was developing this because they thought there was going to be a big market down the road "for the live interaction" they would go rewire and not say "this is for niche people and I expect them to rewire their sound card." Cakewalk built there business by marketing things as easy. ("Rewire capable") - "cool I know what that is...!"

webmammuth · Unread post by **webmammuth** » 19 May 2007, 08:26

senso wrote:hello, interesting discussion.
What to do VST version, rewire?
I'm really fixed now.
I think that the power of Usine comes from the host conception, especially for live situation.
The easier solution should be to create simplified version, to be able to open a single patch as a VST instrument?

Good Idea.
Export of a patch as a vst instrument or effect...

YouTube · Unread post by **senso** » 19 May 2007, 11:53

I found an interesting plug for audio routing, and communicate between Usine and other DAW:

stream boy at
http://www.elevayta.com/

YouTube · Unread post by **senso** » 19 May 2007, 12:16

also this one

/GETOUT_v1.01_BETA/
http://subminimal.org/tools.php

joojoo1234 · Unread post by **joojoo1234** » 19 May 2007, 18:21

Stream boy. Good find!

jean-marc duchenne · Unread post by **jean-marc duchenne** » 19 May 2007, 20:08

If you use Reaper you can use Rearoute : you will have a Rearoute ASIO driver in Usine to receive and send audio from / to Reaper.
It is like Rewire without Rewire, but you will need to use Reaper...

You can try also VirtualAudioCable : http://www.ntonyx.com/vac.htm
It works nice but is not free.

I know that there is an alpha version of Jack for Windows, but I suppose that it is better to wait for a true beta.
http://jackaudio.org/node/13

Cheers

joojoo1234 · Unread post by **joojoo1234** » 19 May 2007, 21:56

I have emailed the company about Streamboy if it will do multichannel audio - I am not experienced enough to tell by looking at it and the manual makes no mention of the work multichannel or surround so... maybe multiple instances would do it. Will look at Virtual Audio Cable - had no idea these existed.

jean-marc duchenne · Unread post by **jean-marc duchenne** » 19 May 2007, 23:17

I have tried VirtualAudioCable several times and it worked well, EXCEPT that I had not succeded to use the 8 channels settings.
All always seemed to be fine, but the signal has only gone on the two first channels.
Since I had no real use of it (I have RME cards !) I have not insisted.

StreamBoy is stereo but it is easy to use several instances.
Sure, a multichannel option would be useful...

joojoo1234 · Unread post by **joojoo1234** » 20 May 2007, 04:35

Well I am confused, I know that energy is a vst as well so don't bother mentioning that. I as an example used audio repeater to send data from energy to usine - anyway - virtual cable supposedly needs aiso 4 all in order to work and... where to start... I was getting without audio repeater sound in the virtual inputs of usine from energy which I understand... virtual... why do I need virtual audio cable? Do I need aiso 4 all? Anyone know. By the way I did get sound showing on 5 of the virtual in on usine going from energy.

joojoo1234 · Unread post by **joojoo1234** » 20 May 2007, 04:54

Anyway so I can get sound from another app through my normal asio driver into usine with the virtual inputs and pass it through to the virtual outputs of usine. Is this correct? I am doing it anyway. So what is the rewire for?
I this happening simply because I installed the asio 4 all or the virtual audio cable or is this the purpose of the virual inputs on usine?

bsork · Unread post by **bsork** » 20 May 2007, 08:27

Hi joojoo1234, I don't know anything abut the virtual audio cables, but I can say that the purpose of using virtual inputs and outputs in Usine is to have an extra layer between the program and the ASIO driver.

By having that extra layer, you get a lot more flexibility when routing, naming inputs and changing between different setups than what you would have had if you chose the in- and outputs directly from the ASIO driver. A simple example is my own setup of inputs; input 1 is called "XLR" has both L and R from my interface's input 1, which is (you guessed it) an XLR/mic input. Input 2 is called "Instr" and has both L and R from the hi-Z instrument input, while input 3 called "Line" and is in stereo from the interface's inputs 3 and 4.

YouTube · Unread post by **senso** » 20 May 2007, 09:35

The problem with the communication between Usine and other soft is not for the audio or Midi flows(there are many solutions, Virtual Audio Cable, RME routing, Midi Mapple, etc) but more to exchange other info like Tempo, Beat position, etc...
That is why we need Rewire or VST.
Is there any solution to exchange such info for example with cubase? (without rewire or VST)

jean-marc duchenne · Unread post by **jean-marc duchenne** » 20 May 2007, 13:39

Do you mean MIDI Clock and MTC ?

joojoo1234 · Unread post by **joojoo1234** » 20 May 2007, 18:44

My problem is this is a lot to learn, how to design these patches and I have a great deal of music to write in the wood and string world (have a recital coming) I can't wait until I understand it better before I dive in which means going down wrong alley's. Oh well. I am going to break down my tasks. The first is to figure out patches regarding placement of sound in my 5.1 field. I will post a new topic.

YouTube · Unread post by **senso** » 20 May 2007, 19:11

not only:
beat position, barlength, etc

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