Thinking of new Ryzen build for HH5

[woodslanding]

I've become spoiled by running at 64 samples now under HH5, but a lot of my resource intensive Kontakt libraries won't play at the lower blocksize. And I'm wanting to add features again, as the program has become very stable for me...

Thinking to get a Ryzen, and wondering how Usine does with various core counts vs. clock speed. I have limited space for a cooler, 70mm, so the 5950x and 5900x processors probably can't run full speed without getting too hot. But maybe it's still worth lower clock speeds if the extra cores will make up the difference?

I guess the question maybe comes down to how well Usine can take advantage of the extra threads.

My WKP as it currently is set up has 17 racks, 15 of which host VSTs, and two for modulation, utilities and looper, etc.

I'd like to buy the fastest processor it actually makes sense to use, but no sense throwing $$ down the drain for no performance gain.

Any thoughts?

Thanks as always!

[senso]

few considerations:
- for audio: Usine runs each audio rack in a thread. So It can take advantage of parallel computing and the more you have CPU cores better it is. But if you have only 17 racks, you don't need 48 cores...
- for audio, it's better to have less strong cores than a lot of small ones.
- for complex workspace routing (ie. the rack 1 goes into the rack 2, the rack 2 into the rack 3, etc.) you can loose the benefit of multi threading. The soluce is to replace the routing by buses (ie: the rack 1 send to a bus and the rack 2 get the bus).
- for the video, it's different because each video module is executed in a thread, so many cores option is good.
- you should wait for the intel i912th generation which seems to be very fast.
senso

[woodslanding]

The intel stuff is going to be way too hot for me to run for a long time yet.... I'm worried about cooling 105w, never mind 165 or 180. And I do want to do something now. Zen3 seems to be working really well at very low latencies.

I do have all my inter-rack connections as busses, so that's good. Seems like 16 threads would be all I need. But 16 cores would sure be great if they could each only run one thread. That's a lot of power for each rack, and shouldn't tax the processor much. Don't know if that's possible with Ryzen though. I'll ask around.

[SylvainT]

Understanding multithreading is very important to work with heavy workspaces in Usine. You can find many informations in the manual and Senso wrote some important things. It took me a very long time and hours of discussions with Senso to have a clear understand of what happens and how to deal with Usine multithreading capabilities.
Prediction of multithreading computing could be easy in many cases or not, depending on what you do.

Basically, Usine uses one thread by rack and one for internal processes. So if you have 8 cores, 7 racks, you'll be sure that everything is computing separately on the 8 cores. If you have more than 7 racks, lets say 10, racks 8, 9 ans 10 will be computing when a thread has finish his first job. But you can't know which thread (decided by Windows or MacOS).
Now, if you have a very heavy racks and 6 lighter, it could be sad, you can dispose off many CPU power in many cores, but the one who calculates the big rack is too busy. Simple to understand and simple to view with the CPU consumption provides by Usine. Usine gives the average CPU consumption of the more busy thread.
You can also have to deals with CPU leaks, extrem momentary CPU consumption you can't view.
What is the solution ? Try to patch your big rack with several racks. You'll have to deal with busses who will introduced one block latency. Or try to work with higher bloc size. It's always a deal between latency and thread capacity.
Now, many more complex problems.
You want to work with VST and/or VSTi. You will deal with new unknown datas. What is the CPU consumption of it ? How is it developped ? Multithreading or monothreading ? How many plugins you use, from different developpers..... you can say "hey, but it works fine with Logic, Reaper or ProTools" . Yes, for sure. But they are environment that are 99,9% predictable. Usine is not, users define their environments, not the developper.
Other things you can't predict and you deal with : the OS and hidden tasks. Remember that if you're online, with other running softwares, the OS could use some threads in your back !?!
Now you deals with complex real time sounds processing, VSTi, video, with low latency (64 samples or less bloc size) inside the same workspace, for sure it would be possible, but certainely a big mess !?!

Try to understand how your environment works, do you have several big tasks or many simple tasks. It could help you to choose your CPU.

We work with i9 10th generation, 8 or 10 cores, they are very powerfull. The i9 12th 16 cores looks very impressive. We do not test the AMD processors, but they also looks impressive. Then, if you have the money for that, you can work with Rizen Threadripper or Xeon, and all your problems are solved !?!

All the best

Sylvain

[woodslanding]

Well yes I think I am actually using hollyhock correctly to get pretty good use of threads. I have each VST in its own rack, and all communication between them is via sends. I was having some clicks with modulation events but I was able to move some stuff to process idle, and it's actually working well again. CPU shows 75%, but I am getting only very rare clicks at 64 blocksize.... Which seems amazing to me, since every other time I have lowered my block size, it's been because I bought a new computer!

[Ariajazz]

I built a Ryzen 3 machine a while ago and it is working fine and smooth with very low latency (64 samples). My workspaces are not too complex, 8 racks at the most with a bunch of VSTs and VSTIs. Latency relies not only on CPU speed but in the quality of the ASIO drivers.

[woodslanding]

Yeah, RME drivers all the way for me. I'm getting 15 racks at 64 with no problems so far, and I haven't really optimized windows or the CPU yet.

I did read that at the moment, windows 11 will compromise latency on Ryzen processors, so best to wait to upgrade. But I hope nobody here is thinking of jumping on a brand-new OS for audio work!

I installed windows server LTSC, so I'm guaranteed windows 10 with no feature updates for five more years.

[Ariajazz]

Microsoft just released a Win 11patch that corrects the issue with Ryzen processors. I do already have Win 11 on my laptop (i5) and it is working fine. I haven't upgraded to Win 11 on my music production PC yet, which is Ryzen 3 powered. I may wait a few months until more information is released about how does Win11 go and perform with music.