hi again guys, hoping for some direction from this most excellent community. For starters I should explain the way i want to use usine and perhaps people could give me advice. sincere thanks in advance.
For a while now i have been experimenting with an ableton/deckadance setup for my DJ setup. Deckadance: http://deckadance.image-line.com/ can be run as a VST, so I have been running deckadance inside ableton in what i would describe as trying to get the best of both worlds: a traditional two waveform dj program with the effects possibilities of ableton. I'm currently using a smart mixer sidechain compression live file designed by bentosan. http://www.djtechtools.com/2009/06/01/s ... r-ableton/
I feel like i'm not using ableton to its fullest (and that it's routing options seem limited) and started looking at other programs to run Deckadance in and found audiomulch (was using 1.0) and then usine. Deckadance runs great in Usine and i really like the little icon it gets reduced to when you minimize it. Audiomulch has a easy learning curve, and worked out a design for the smart mixer, but it doesn't seem to have the amount of options for design as usine does.
So in a way i'm using whatever program i decide on as a complex effects box. Usine should be great for that too right? I should be able to design my own interface that focuses around deckadance but also has controls and feedback of the patches i create right?
In terms of your grid and the numbered columns and patches, if i'm going to be moving from different patch to different patch in the audio chain, would i want a certain order to the patches?
i daydream about my touchscreen tablet showing deckadance while i need it for doing mix stuff and then it reducing that icon down and showing a "board" of controls and feedback areas showing the effects going on in the background that let me make my changes and then i push that icon and deckadance gets maximized again.
by the way i should add that i will have a couple midi controls in the setup too, so everything in Deckadance is being controlled by midi.
also is there anyway in my setup i could not have certain things running in usine to save on computer resources?
thanks.
couple more questions about usine for my uses...
hi beatnix,
yes usine must be a perfect candidate to create a customizable modular fx toolbox for deckadance, also to control it and make your shorcuts interface.
im not an expert with audio in usine but it seems there are several ways to create fx routing matrix, simple if the chain as a fixed order, an then each fx can be bypassed if not used disabling the pach, or more complex with a modulation matrix (see gurulogic add on 32x32martrix). it's possible to uses busses (i would go this way) and create a bus for each fx then it's possible to dynamically change buss names to make complex routings, or you can creates several fxracks and select them in the grid.
you can of course midi remote control deckadance with usine.
the "pach active" module in interface control let you enable or not a patch to save ressources.
yes usine must be a perfect candidate to create a customizable modular fx toolbox for deckadance, also to control it and make your shorcuts interface.
im not an expert with audio in usine but it seems there are several ways to create fx routing matrix, simple if the chain as a fixed order, an then each fx can be bypassed if not used disabling the pach, or more complex with a modulation matrix (see gurulogic add on 32x32martrix). it's possible to uses busses (i would go this way) and create a bus for each fx then it's possible to dynamically change buss names to make complex routings, or you can creates several fxracks and select them in the grid.
you can of course midi remote control deckadance with usine.
the "pach active" module in interface control let you enable or not a patch to save ressources.
thank you for your reply, i will do some searches for those terms and try to find out more.
Man do i feel silly i was using the usine pro demo and felt like i couldn't do anything really cause i couldn't save. i downloaded the free version and i should be able to save stuff now as i want it.
could someone explain what i can't edit in the free version? i know it doesn't do dual core processing but anything else?
thanks
Man do i feel silly i was using the usine pro demo and felt like i couldn't do anything really cause i couldn't save. i downloaded the free version and i should be able to save stuff now as i want it.
could someone explain what i can't edit in the free version? i know it doesn't do dual core processing but anything else?
thanks
i'm getting a "bad asio buffer lenght (too big or too small)" message when i try to use my bcd2000's asio soundcard, and adjusting the latency in the BCDdriver doesn't seem to help.
any suggestions? that's not my main card (i have a presonus firebox) but for my test rig i use the bcd2000
thanks
any suggestions? that's not my main card (i have a presonus firebox) but for my test rig i use the bcd2000
thanks
try Asio4all?
Olivier Sens
www.brainmodular.com
www.brainmodular.com
using it now for the stock computer audio card (realtek) and it works so good call i'll try it. thanks.
just a side note, pretty excited working in usine, currently setting up smart mixer that i linked above.
i think it is going smoothly
is there anyway to temp zoom out of a patch so i could take a screenshot of what i'm working on?
i think it is going smoothly
is there anyway to temp zoom out of a patch so i could take a screenshot of what i'm working on?
If you mean to zoom in the patch design window to see more of modules, it's not possible. The only zoom function in Usine that I can think of right now, is horizontal zoom in the sequencer.
Bjørn S
if you're ready to share a screenshot of your patch , maybe it would be easier to save this patch and upload on a ftp or a free web site ...?
( just type "share file" in google if you don't have one yet..)
( just type "share file" in google if you don't have one yet..)
i would try that for sure but are you going to have to have the deckadance vst and the sidechain compressor vst that i'm using right?
here is a pic of it, perhaps there are ways to do this within usine without the sidechain vst??
thanks for the help:
edit i should have explained that the crossfaders are there so you can choose which decks highs or lows are dominant. the crossfader would act like an on off for key input to the various compressors so you could route the audio out how you wanted. for example if you want deck b's lows to be dominant, then you would open that crossfader and close the low crossfader on deck a low.
here is a pic of it, perhaps there are ways to do this within usine without the sidechain vst??
thanks for the help:
edit i should have explained that the crossfaders are there so you can choose which decks highs or lows are dominant. the crossfader would act like an on off for key input to the various compressors so you could route the audio out how you wanted. for example if you want deck b's lows to be dominant, then you would open that crossfader and close the low crossfader on deck a low.
hello again, been searching around wiki and the manual, still a little feel like i could be doing something like in the picture alot easier within usine without that sidechain compressor vst.
so basically the smart mixer works like this: take deck a and separates it into highs and lows using highpass/lowpass filter, does the same with deck b. then use the highs of deck a as the key input for the highs of deck b and visa versa. it uses the lows of deck a as the key input for the lows of deck b and visa versa. then it need a crossfader or fader on each of these key inputs so that i can select which deck's highs or lows i want to stand through the mix and which get ducked.
i feel like i should be able to do with with the gain input on the Vol audio module. but i would need to invert it and make it fall between 0 and 1 right?
thanks
i have been using usine alot in the last couple days, and i have a setup started for using deckadance with it and my midi controller setup correctly.
so basically the smart mixer works like this: take deck a and separates it into highs and lows using highpass/lowpass filter, does the same with deck b. then use the highs of deck a as the key input for the highs of deck b and visa versa. it uses the lows of deck a as the key input for the lows of deck b and visa versa. then it need a crossfader or fader on each of these key inputs so that i can select which deck's highs or lows i want to stand through the mix and which get ducked.
i feel like i should be able to do with with the gain input on the Vol audio module. but i would need to invert it and make it fall between 0 and 1 right?
thanks
i have been using usine alot in the last couple days, and i have a setup started for using deckadance with it and my midi controller setup correctly.
you could split the freqency then use an enveloppe folower that yes, you reverse, (modules analysis) and apply to the gain of the other deck.
you can make the4x bus then make a cross fade on the "gain reducer" to choose wich one is dominant.
you can make the4x bus then make a cross fade on the "gain reducer" to choose wich one is dominant.
cooli have been using usine alot in the last couple days, and i have a setup started for using deckadance with it and my midi controller setup correctly.
hope maybe one day in the addon section...
it is amazing how quickly i get responses on this forum. 23fx23, i'm going to have to search the forums for your terms, thanks for leading me in the right direction.
nay-seven, yes as i get this setup to how i want it, i will be happy to share it. It was very satisfying to be able to set my controller up with deckadance without using bomes (not saying anything about bomes, just always good to be able to do stuff in native program IMO). To summarize, I use a single EKS xp-5 to control both virtual decks in deckadance. Currently deckadance doesn't support single deck control but it does allow for you to use two xp-5s at the same time, deck a is using channel 1 and deck b is using channel 2. So for over year I have been using bomes to switch the channel of the single xp-5 with a modifier key so deckadance thinks there is two of them, one on channel 1 and one on channel 2. Today I set it up within Usine without bomes, so i have a nice big button in the touchscreen part and when i push it and it is on then i'm controlling deck A and when i push i the button and it is off then i'm controlling deck b. i'm using a touchscreen tabletPC so i can use my finger or the mouse to activate it.
probably seems very easy in retrospect but it is cool to have it working.
I mix with an external mixer so i also got my multiple audio outs setup, including an additional channel for when i want to start adding sampled material vox etc into the mix.
nay-seven, yes as i get this setup to how i want it, i will be happy to share it. It was very satisfying to be able to set my controller up with deckadance without using bomes (not saying anything about bomes, just always good to be able to do stuff in native program IMO). To summarize, I use a single EKS xp-5 to control both virtual decks in deckadance. Currently deckadance doesn't support single deck control but it does allow for you to use two xp-5s at the same time, deck a is using channel 1 and deck b is using channel 2. So for over year I have been using bomes to switch the channel of the single xp-5 with a modifier key so deckadance thinks there is two of them, one on channel 1 and one on channel 2. Today I set it up within Usine without bomes, so i have a nice big button in the touchscreen part and when i push it and it is on then i'm controlling deck A and when i push i the button and it is off then i'm controlling deck b. i'm using a touchscreen tabletPC so i can use my finger or the mouse to activate it.
probably seems very easy in retrospect but it is cool to have it working.
I mix with an external mixer so i also got my multiple audio outs setup, including an additional channel for when i want to start adding sampled material vox etc into the mix.
where is the reverse? I can't seem to find it.23fx23 wrote:you could split the freqency then use an enveloppe folower that yes, you reverse, (modules analysis) and apply to the gain of the other deck.
you can make the4x bus then make a cross fade on the "gain reducer" to choose wich one is dominant.
thanks
yup in fact there is no build in reverse but you can make it easily by adding an A-B module.
for exemple something that peak from 0 to 1 then go back to 0, if you calculate( 1 - this) the out will be 1 then peak down to 0,
"reverse", so I guess if you enter something around 30db (A) - B (output of the enveloppe folower) you should have a sidechain negative enveloppe that will lower deckB when deck A hits. (depend on source volume, try to play with values)., you can add a fader on the output of the A-B to visualize/check, not sure how it works for the log scale..
must be a nice setup, you'll enoy usine for sure on top of that
I use also this "cheating" technique for mixing, very efficient, should be nice working with usine, automix
I made this with a dedicaced dynamical 5band EQ and each band has it's own sidechain from same range of the other track, kind of magic results, but boring to setup, control and I had latency (it's was a dsp plugin), so im interested too in usine version..much more modular. also deckadance seemed to have a nice midi scubbing/scrathing function, have to check it back..
for exemple something that peak from 0 to 1 then go back to 0, if you calculate( 1 - this) the out will be 1 then peak down to 0,
"reverse", so I guess if you enter something around 30db (A) - B (output of the enveloppe folower) you should have a sidechain negative enveloppe that will lower deckB when deck A hits. (depend on source volume, try to play with values)., you can add a fader on the output of the A-B to visualize/check, not sure how it works for the log scale..
must be a nice setup, you'll enoy usine for sure on top of that
I use also this "cheating" technique for mixing, very efficient, should be nice working with usine, automix
I made this with a dedicaced dynamical 5band EQ and each band has it's own sidechain from same range of the other track, kind of magic results, but boring to setup, control and I had latency (it's was a dsp plugin), so im interested too in usine version..much more modular. also deckadance seemed to have a nice midi scubbing/scrathing function, have to check it back..
i was thinkinga 5 band eq with this idea would be sweet, i bet it produced some awesome results. thank you for the advice on the A-B module, that seems to be what im looking for.
would you mind explain the 4bus thing to me starting on where it is located? thanks.
deckadance does have pretty good midi scrubbing scratching, works great on the eks xp-5. the cool thing about DD is that you could also set it up as a DVS so you could run timecode on turntables or cdjs instead of using a midi controller, all within usine.
i'm beginning to think they really are a perfect pair, at least for what i'm trying to do.
would you mind explain the 4bus thing to me starting on where it is located? thanks.
deckadance does have pretty good midi scrubbing scratching, works great on the eks xp-5. the cool thing about DD is that you could also set it up as a DVS so you could run timecode on turntables or cdjs instead of using a midi controller, all within usine.
i'm beginning to think they really are a perfect pair, at least for what i'm trying to do.
yep sorry in fact i spoke more in general theory terms that in usine modules term, the 4bus were the 4 audio flux (Alow, Ahi, Blow,Bhi). I think what you need is just the enveloppe folower and some basic A-B, AxB maths modules.
to sum up the steps are 1)first split each 2tracks with hp and lp to get the two freq range. (seems you have it already)
2) generate the sidechain enveloppes for each of the 4bus (Ahi,Alo,Bhi,Blow) then use the a-b tech to reverse the envelopes.
3) then we want to be able to choose wich is dominant, i would go for a fader of 0to1 that mutiply ((AxB) module) for example the sound input coming to envelope B, so if set to 0 the B enveloppe get nothing (Ax0)and so will not reduce , if 1 will get some sig and will lower . then with that fader, same A-B tec to inverse for the incoming of A envellope, the cross fader should then let you choose what track reduce the other.
yup 5bands give very good results, on the other side 2 and 3 bands are giving more prononciated, maybe more interesting results too, anyway that's good to start with 2, and that can be later experimented with more.
yep having a time code for cheap is very cool, indeed must be a very good combo,
is latency ok for scratching?
to sum up the steps are 1)first split each 2tracks with hp and lp to get the two freq range. (seems you have it already)
2) generate the sidechain enveloppes for each of the 4bus (Ahi,Alo,Bhi,Blow) then use the a-b tech to reverse the envelopes.
3) then we want to be able to choose wich is dominant, i would go for a fader of 0to1 that mutiply ((AxB) module) for example the sound input coming to envelope B, so if set to 0 the B enveloppe get nothing (Ax0)and so will not reduce , if 1 will get some sig and will lower . then with that fader, same A-B tec to inverse for the incoming of A envellope, the cross fader should then let you choose what track reduce the other.
yup 5bands give very good results, on the other side 2 and 3 bands are giving more prononciated, maybe more interesting results too, anyway that's good to start with 2, and that can be later experimented with more.
yep having a time code for cheap is very cool, indeed must be a very good combo,
is latency ok for scratching?
thank you for summing it up like that. i do good with checklists.
I haven't tried scratching, not really my thing. you could try the demo with your mixer/soundcard and deckadance can use most timecodes if you have any around.
I see you are a Live user, did you happen to check out bentosan's als for the smart mixer he set up for ableton? it's pretty fun and easy to use. my first post has the link.
i'm so glad i found usine. It is top notch to offer a free version so people can start testing the program in their own setup. If Usine is going to play the part i think it is going to then naturally i'll get the pro version.
I haven't tried scratching, not really my thing. you could try the demo with your mixer/soundcard and deckadance can use most timecodes if you have any around.
I see you are a Live user, did you happen to check out bentosan's als for the smart mixer he set up for ableton? it's pretty fun and easy to use. my first post has the link.
i'm so glad i found usine. It is top notch to offer a free version so people can start testing the program in their own setup. If Usine is going to play the part i think it is going to then naturally i'll get the pro version.
no, didn't know, will check that setup thx;
yup i think it's good too for the free versions, some users may directly catch the power of usine, some may don't be in patching logic, could be bored prefering some "intuitive ready to use but locked" appz, so wouldn't like having spent money, personnally i wasn't experienced at all in such sofware, i downloded the free version, to be honest was a bit septic cause of stupid graphical pre-judgments (oops sorry senso), but it didn't take me long to be amazed by what usine could do, really , for me now it's value has no price, cause it has exploded one by one any limit i could have met before, honestly it should cost far more than what it cost actually, but chhht no influences, take your time and see by yourself..
yup i think it's good too for the free versions, some users may directly catch the power of usine, some may don't be in patching logic, could be bored prefering some "intuitive ready to use but locked" appz, so wouldn't like having spent money, personnally i wasn't experienced at all in such sofware, i downloded the free version, to be honest was a bit septic cause of stupid graphical pre-judgments (oops sorry senso), but it didn't take me long to be amazed by what usine could do, really , for me now it's value has no price, cause it has exploded one by one any limit i could have met before, honestly it should cost far more than what it cost actually, but chhht no influences, take your time and see by yourself..
ok so i just got done playing with it for 45 min, a simple setup without the sidechain stuff, just my switch to control deck a or deck b. something isn't quite right with my setup or something, because it works most of the time but sometimes when i make the switch certain buttons on the eks xp-5 don't work in deckadance.
everything works perfect when i use bomes to change the channels.
everything works perfect when i use bomes to change the channels.
COuld you post a screenshot beatniks3?
Seb.Dub
ok so that faderB is set at 1, this was before i figured out i could just put a value in for B. so when the switch is off it is 0 + 1 = channel 1 select in combobox. when the switch is on it is 1+ 1= channel 2 select in combobox.
thanks.
is the combobox what i should be using? I mean it is great when you have alot of combos but if i am just switching between channel 1 and channel 2 is there a different way to do it?
edit: looking at it maybe i don't need that combo box at all
ok so with fresh eyes and mind, i cleaned it up. no faderB, no combobox. just the switch and the a+b module going right into the channel of the midi transfer. b is set at 1.
testing this now and trying to see if this gives me the same problem. and it is the strangest thing, everything on the controller works correctly from what i can tell except sync (not working on both sides). is that an omen? well i would like to have it work just because it should work.
edit: it does give me the same thing, works for a little bit and then it everything except the jogwheel stops working on the eks.
2nd edit: i restarted the computer and retried it. it stopped working after a short amount of time and when i closed down usine i noticed the eks midi agent that resides in the right hand corner of windows wasn't open. i'm not sure how it closed, but since i have reopened it, everything seems to be working right (except for sync which still doesnt work). still have more testing to do....but whatever is closing the midi agent is my problem.
testing this now and trying to see if this gives me the same problem. and it is the strangest thing, everything on the controller works correctly from what i can tell except sync (not working on both sides). is that an omen?
well i would like to have it work just because it should work.edit: it does give me the same thing, works for a little bit and then it everything except the jogwheel stops working on the eks.
2nd edit: i restarted the computer and retried it. it stopped working after a short amount of time and when i closed down usine i noticed the eks midi agent that resides in the right hand corner of windows wasn't open. i'm not sure how it closed, but since i have reopened it, everything seems to be working right (except for sync which still doesnt work). still have more testing to do....but whatever is closing the midi agent is my problem.
here is a screenshot of my sidechain project so far, as you can see i still need to add at least one fader into the chain, one after each a-b out. you can also see the cool little deckadance icon in the upper right corner
cool beatnix seems your patch is quasi done, you just need the fader to choose dominant now,
for the sync i guess you checked but there are options in setup preference to enable midi clock sync and mmc, check that first.
also maybe the sync should be treated separately from the other midi mess , not sure but feel the sync won't like to be midi transformed. First maybe debug by checking that you well receive a sync by putting a midi in in blank worspace. wach if the "send" led lights up even if you don't make moves (it should display "mess 248" and light ups sppedy if work) if it well receive the sync from midi in. if yes then put after this a "receive midiclock III" module in usine/midiclock. usine clock should then follow the clock in and by the way deckadance too if im not wrong.
for the sync i guess you checked but there are options in setup preference to enable midi clock sync and mmc, check that first.
also maybe the sync should be treated separately from the other midi mess , not sure but feel the sync won't like to be midi transformed. First maybe debug by checking that you well receive a sync by putting a midi in in blank worspace. wach if the "send" led lights up even if you don't make moves (it should display "mess 248" and light ups sppedy if work) if it well receive the sync from midi in. if yes then put after this a "receive midiclock III" module in usine/midiclock. usine clock should then follow the clock in and by the way deckadance too if im not wrong.
hey man, thank you for the post. i'm afraid there might be a little confusion on what sync i meant. the sync i mean is in DD, to sync the two decks together, like it beatmatches for you. like i said, it is strange to me, that everything else works fine but just that.
i think you are talking about midi clock syncing. i'll try those settings you are talking about just in case that matters.
i'll have to check and see what midi message is being sent when i push the sync button on the xp-5
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i have been testing my switch all afternoon and it seems to be working right now. would usine cause other programs (like those in the righthand taskbar) to close?
i think you are talking about midi clock syncing. i'll try those settings you are talking about just in case that matters.
i'll have to check and see what midi message is being sent when i push the sync button on the xp-5
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i have been testing my switch all afternoon and it seems to be working right now. would usine cause other programs (like those in the righthand taskbar) to close?
oh yup sorry, nothing to do then, mm strange, normally usine shouldn't interact with other process, maybe this is a bg process that make mess with midi don't know, or maybe the midi driver could crash because of a loop (activate only midi in to check) does it happen at high cpu load? but if everything else works it seems more coming from emitting/interpreting that mess in particular, yes, check what is send when you press the sync button, you can activate "trace in " in midi options to wach incoming messages, or simply whach the midi in.
thanks i will check all those things tomorrow. if i have learned one thing about usine, its that you should take breaks and even say enough is enough for one day. give the mind time to reevaluate the problem.
i had it happen again and i noticed it was when i was nudging with the outer ring and i accidentally jerked the jogwheel while touching the touch platter. this was something i was having issues when i first got the xp-5 but i thought i had it sorted.
so i need to check that out and see if maybe it isn't usine at all.
edit: looking at the wiki and i'm seeing there is a midi module "midi filter" and one called "midi transformer" i'm currently using the transformer but i'm wondering what the difference would be if i used the midi filter.
edit2: i was doing some searching and found this thread: maybe my issue?
http://www.sensomusic.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=1370
i had it happen again and i noticed it was when i was nudging with the outer ring and i accidentally jerked the jogwheel while touching the touch platter. this was something i was having issues when i first got the xp-5 but i thought i had it sorted.
so i need to check that out and see if maybe it isn't usine at all.
edit: looking at the wiki and i'm seeing there is a midi module "midi filter" and one called "midi transformer" i'm currently using the transformer but i'm wondering what the difference would be if i used the midi filter.
edit2: i was doing some searching and found this thread: maybe my issue?
http://www.sensomusic.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=1370
yes, hard for me to take breaks but definitely better sometimes.
the midi filter can better separate the midi incoming infos if you can choose a way to make them different ( different midi ch or message type for ex) for the jog and sync button,
you can then isolate the 2messages coming in and for example block the jog mess for a small amout of time when the sync message is received if this is the pb.
but note sure i cacth the whole pb, think you have to check if deckadance loose sync because the jog emit a message just after you pressed sync, or if it s the midi message of sync that is ignored, in this case, as said in this thread using the "unpack" fonction can avoid pbs.
but definitely better sometimes.the midi filter can better separate the midi incoming infos if you can choose a way to make them different ( different midi ch or message type for ex) for the jog and sync button,
you can then isolate the 2messages coming in and for example block the jog mess for a small amout of time when the sync message is received if this is the pb.
but note sure i cacth the whole pb, think you have to check if deckadance loose sync because the jog emit a message just after you pressed sync, or if it s the midi message of sync that is ignored, in this case, as said in this thread using the "unpack" fonction can avoid pbs.
back at it, this morning i clearly see what the difference between the "midi filter" and "midi transformer" is now lol.
doing some searching on the "unpack" and working on my sidechain. i'll post back how it goes.
doing some searching on the "unpack" and working on my sidechain. i'll post back how it goes.
pretty sure i got my sidechain setup working, just need to tweak now. i thought about using a crossfader and i still might, but for now i am using switchs with your a*b module idea. So i have a switchAhigh and switchBhigh and i can choose which one i want dominate and or i can choose to have neither dominate or both acting on each other.
i think i might try with the other HP/LP module as well, it has more options.
thanks for everyone's help. will keep an update going on my progress.
edit: i realize after playing around with it for awhile that my setup in the smartmixersofar pic isn't quite right because it from the A-B module i'm sending a value between 1 and 0 into the gain (which is db) of the Vol Audio, so the gain only flucutes between 0 dB and 1 dB. it should be flucuating from 0 dB and -infinity (or off whatever that lowend is)
ill have to look around at this, maybe someone can point me to the right direction
edit2: found the coeff to db module in math and put it in my rig seems to be working, still testing.
edit3:what is the difference between env follower and peak follower? thanks
i think i might try with the other HP/LP module as well, it has more options.
thanks for everyone's help. will keep an update going on my progress.
edit: i realize after playing around with it for awhile that my setup in the smartmixersofar pic isn't quite right because it from the A-B module i'm sending a value between 1 and 0 into the gain (which is db) of the Vol Audio, so the gain only flucutes between 0 dB and 1 dB. it should be flucuating from 0 dB and -infinity (or off whatever that lowend is)
ill have to look around at this, maybe someone can point me to the right direction
edit2: found the coeff to db module in math and put it in my rig seems to be working, still testing.
edit3:what is the difference between env follower and peak follower? thanks
ok so i'm wondering how i can increase or decrease the amount the compressed audio's vol gets reduced. i'd like this to be an option via knob or fader, for times when you just want a little compression and times when you want more compression.
i'm thinking i need to add a math module of some type in after my envelope follower that increases or decreases the db level of the audio going back into the Vol module that acts as a key modifier. i feel like it has to be done after the switch back to dB, but am i wrong in thinking that? actually, i think i just need to not use a switch with is either of or full and use faders like was suggested so i can increase/decrease the level there.
thanks!
edit: question 2: when i buy the pro license, i'm a little unclear what happens after a year. after a year i stop being able to download stuff as gold member, and no more updates, but I still get to use the version of the pro version that i have bought correct past that time correct?
edit2: here is a pic of my testing workspace:
on the left you can see my two switches for deckA high dominance or deckB high dom. you can see some faders that i put in to watch what is happening and some faders with midi assignments for me to mess around with env. attack and release. the freq fader is there to increase/decrease the high pass cutoff.
there is probably some different ways to do this, if u have suggestions please let me know, thanks
i'm thinking i need to add a math module of some type in after my envelope follower that increases or decreases the db level of the audio going back into the Vol module that acts as a key modifier. i feel like it has to be done after the switch back to dB, but am i wrong in thinking that? actually, i think i just need to not use a switch with is either of or full and use faders like was suggested so i can increase/decrease the level there.
thanks!
edit: question 2: when i buy the pro license, i'm a little unclear what happens after a year. after a year i stop being able to download stuff as gold member, and no more updates, but I still get to use the version of the pro version that i have bought correct past that time correct?
edit2: here is a pic of my testing workspace:
on the left you can see my two switches for deckA high dominance or deckB high dom. you can see some faders that i put in to watch what is happening and some faders with midi assignments for me to mess around with env. attack and release. the freq fader is there to increase/decrease the high pass cutoff.
there is probably some different ways to do this, if u have suggestions please let me know, thanks
hi beatnix ive watched your pic, good job. effectivelly you needed to add a coeff to db i forgot to say.
from your previous questions the peaks folower detects peaks, that mean mean the sig is above a threshold value, whereas the enveloppe folower is more constant with a multiplier, so in your case you will probably have more control using the enveloppe folower. you right the solution to have a compression control is create a fader that will act as a multipler instead the swich I guess. this way you could keep the same possibilities (no comp, both comp, Acomb, Bcomp) with all in between values. and If you later want to have a general crossfader, it's possible to make a 3rd fader "crossfader" that control fader 1, and same a-b tec to control fader 2. what is cool then i think you could try the "pass if change" module just before each two fader, so you will have independant control of each fader1and2, but if you move the crossfader it will overide and take control of the two faders... will post a pic if you need, but just to understand you can try make one fader, pit a "pass if change" after it, linked to a second fader, try to move the two faders, you should catch the idea.
cheers
from your previous questions the peaks folower detects peaks, that mean mean the sig is above a threshold value, whereas the enveloppe folower is more constant with a multiplier, so in your case you will probably have more control using the enveloppe folower. you right the solution to have a compression control is create a fader that will act as a multipler instead the swich I guess. this way you could keep the same possibilities (no comp, both comp, Acomb, Bcomp) with all in between values. and If you later want to have a general crossfader, it's possible to make a 3rd fader "crossfader" that control fader 1, and same a-b tec to control fader 2. what is cool then i think you could try the "pass if change" module just before each two fader, so you will have independant control of each fader1and2, but if you move the crossfader it will overide and take control of the two faders... will post a pic if you need, but just to understand you can try make one fader, pit a "pass if change" after it, linked to a second fader, try to move the two faders, you should catch the idea.
cheers
once again, thanks for your insightful post and i'm flattered with the "good job." usine has been very rewarding in the short time i have been using it.
i'd like to have your fader1 and fader2 and crossfader as well. i'll try to get it figured out and post back if i need some help.
also do you know the answer to my question about what happens after a year with the pro version? (see previous post)
usine has been very rewarding in the short time i have been using it. i'd like to have your fader1 and fader2 and crossfader as well. i'll try to get it figured out and post back if i need some help.
also do you know the answer to my question about what happens after a year with the pro version? (see previous post)
you're welcome.
im quite sure the version keeps working, from what i understood this concerns the updates , once you buy it you got one year of free update, then if you want to upgrade a new year it's 40euros, but if you don't you still can keep your latest updated version. im 98 percent sure . have to be confirmed by senso/older users, that's less than one year got it ...
im quite sure the version keeps working, from what i understood this concerns the updates , once you buy it you got one year of free update, then if you want to upgrade a new year it's 40euros, but if you don't you still can keep your latest updated version. im 98 percent sure . have to be confirmed by senso/older users, that's less than one year got it ...
well i got it switched over from switches to faders, works great. next challenge is the crossfader.
now i've been also considering cpu use and efficiency. been doing some searches and reading older posts. I was having a problem with the cpu meter spiking to 100% when loading two songs into Deckadance (which analyzes the song's bpm and makes the waveform) but i think i can get around that by changing the settings in deckadance to slow decoder/analysis mode: enable if you have sound glitches. the only problem with that is it takes about twice as long to do the analysis, no a huge deal.
aside that from issue, i would like to have my "whatever you call it" (patch? module?) be as efficient as possible.
question: my tablet has an intel dual core @ 1.06Ghz, with 1.5GB ram running tabletxp (optimized for DAW, no network, reduces services etc.), i should see a big boost in performance going with the pro version of usine over the free version that is limited to using just a single core correct? it isn't very expensive to go to 2Gb of ram, should i do that?
when using the pro version how could i make sure the load was evenly distributed between the cores? is this done automatically?
in terms of efficiency i read on the forums here that it isn't very efficient to have more then one wire going into an In. seems like i have a ton of that going on here, esp. if you look at my pic and realize that is just the highs, there is a low branch as well. now when i'm using my music rig, i will have more audio outs so that will help, but should i have a bus or 4 or 8 or 16 to 2 type config.
any advice on making projects more efficient?
now i've been also considering cpu use and efficiency. been doing some searches and reading older posts. I was having a problem with the cpu meter spiking to 100% when loading two songs into Deckadance (which analyzes the song's bpm and makes the waveform) but i think i can get around that by changing the settings in deckadance to slow decoder/analysis mode: enable if you have sound glitches. the only problem with that is it takes about twice as long to do the analysis, no a huge deal.
aside that from issue, i would like to have my "whatever you call it" (patch? module?) be as efficient as possible.
question: my tablet has an intel dual core @ 1.06Ghz, with 1.5GB ram running tabletxp (optimized for DAW, no network, reduces services etc.), i should see a big boost in performance going with the pro version of usine over the free version that is limited to using just a single core correct? it isn't very expensive to go to 2Gb of ram, should i do that?
when using the pro version how could i make sure the load was evenly distributed between the cores? is this done automatically?
in terms of efficiency i read on the forums here that it isn't very efficient to have more then one wire going into an In. seems like i have a ton of that going on here, esp. if you look at my pic and realize that is just the highs, there is a low branch as well. now when i'm using my music rig, i will have more audio outs so that will help, but should i have a bus or 4 or 8 or 16 to 2 type config.
any advice on making projects more efficient?
Hi beatniks,
mmm didn't new free version was monocore, there is an option in setup to enable multicore, it's disabled in free version? (if i well remember by default it's disabled. to save cpu there is also a netbook edition that reduces tracks and few other things to save cpu, but you can get it when going to pro. but by waiting you can manually just enable the in/outs you need at first step.
for the ram it can change but maybe 500mb different is not that much, going to 4gb would maybe make a difference if you lack of ram, the best is checking avaible ram to see if you re ready to lack. dependz if you will make an intensive use of fxs. personnally I more often lack of CPU/hardrive rate than ram, got only 2gb enough for what i do now. try your setup for a while an try to see where it lacks, ie if cpu is getting too high, if there are dropouts due to harddrive rate. I noticed a high Cpu gain if I use a good audio card(here Tc konnekt) over local asio4all, and setting the laptop to "full performance" in enegy options, by default it's balanced. just those two thingz let me have 25-35 percent more cpu, but I guess you're already in same configuration.
I can't find it back in the forum but there is a post by senso with good tips to optimize audio on Xp, seems you must have done the same already.
we call a patch a group of modules and wiring (the white/yellow rectangles), patch can have subpatch , subpacth can have subpatch ect...but the subpatch are etitable with pro version only. but then what is powerfull is that you can enable or not a subpatch by adding a patch active module, for example in your case you could separate the two analysis of peak folower in two differents subpatchs that would be active only when needed, ie if no compression, booth will can be disabled and this will save a bit amout of cpu.
I also put many wires from one output to several inputs more clear to understand first, that's not a drastic pb, but once you patch is working, this might be better, instead of having a IN going to A and B, to wire the IN to A, then expand the module (the little square on top left) so the in of A are seen on outputs, and redrive the in of A (from the right then)to in of B. this is also a more "event" way to see the process, cause if you later enable/disable subpatch you'll have to now what better order in to process the operations.
I don't remember how usine spread process over the cores, but i think it's done automatically, have to check, maybe it's related to patch or tracks. if someone has the answer...
there are several differents aproach to optimize, depends of what you do, in general I try to decompose the patch in "process subpachs" that i activate or not relating needz. try to avoid do do X times the same group of operations when you can do one only and drive the results to the X outs. there is also a bus trick I find interesting in some cases that let you, instead of using classical inputs, to uses busses with naming. you then enter a name and it's virtually as if it was creating a wire to the buss you are requesting(instead of using N wires that pass or not). for example if you want to drive an audio bus to differents FXs, you can say sendtoA, sendtoB, ect with a list box that contains the busses names, recently discover it's also possible to dynamically create/delete wires and modules via usine messages, but well all those are more complex thingz you will need just a bit of time to experiment..
mmm didn't new free version was monocore, there is an option in setup to enable multicore, it's disabled in free version? (if i well remember by default it's disabled. to save cpu there is also a netbook edition that reduces tracks and few other things to save cpu, but you can get it when going to pro. but by waiting you can manually just enable the in/outs you need at first step.
for the ram it can change but maybe 500mb different is not that much, going to 4gb would maybe make a difference if you lack of ram, the best is checking avaible ram to see if you re ready to lack. dependz if you will make an intensive use of fxs. personnally I more often lack of CPU/hardrive rate than ram, got only 2gb enough for what i do now. try your setup for a while an try to see where it lacks, ie if cpu is getting too high, if there are dropouts due to harddrive rate. I noticed a high Cpu gain if I use a good audio card(here Tc konnekt) over local asio4all, and setting the laptop to "full performance" in enegy options, by default it's balanced. just those two thingz let me have 25-35 percent more cpu, but I guess you're already in same configuration.
I can't find it back in the forum but there is a post by senso with good tips to optimize audio on Xp, seems you must have done the same already.
we call a patch a group of modules and wiring (the white/yellow rectangles), patch can have subpatch , subpacth can have subpatch ect...but the subpatch are etitable with pro version only. but then what is powerfull is that you can enable or not a subpatch by adding a patch active module, for example in your case you could separate the two analysis of peak folower in two differents subpatchs that would be active only when needed, ie if no compression, booth will can be disabled and this will save a bit amout of cpu.
I also put many wires from one output to several inputs more clear to understand first, that's not a drastic pb, but once you patch is working, this might be better, instead of having a IN going to A and B, to wire the IN to A, then expand the module (the little square on top left) so the in of A are seen on outputs, and redrive the in of A (from the right then)to in of B. this is also a more "event" way to see the process, cause if you later enable/disable subpatch you'll have to now what better order in to process the operations.
I don't remember how usine spread process over the cores, but i think it's done automatically, have to check, maybe it's related to patch or tracks. if someone has the answer...
there are several differents aproach to optimize, depends of what you do, in general I try to decompose the patch in "process subpachs" that i activate or not relating needz. try to avoid do do X times the same group of operations when you can do one only and drive the results to the X outs. there is also a bus trick I find interesting in some cases that let you, instead of using classical inputs, to uses busses with naming. you then enter a name and it's virtually as if it was creating a wire to the buss you are requesting(instead of using N wires that pass or not). for example if you want to drive an audio bus to differents FXs, you can say sendtoA, sendtoB, ect with a list box that contains the busses names, recently discover it's also possible to dynamically create/delete wires and modules via usine messages, but well all those are more complex thingz you will need just a bit of time to experiment..
what a fantastic post! admittedly i don't understand all of it but i'll start doing some searches and ask some more questions if i can't figure it out.
that thread you wanted to find by senso, i read that a couple days ago and i used the guide that was based on to setup my tabletxp.
here is the quote from the main usine page "Usine Free is fully functional but you can't edit Sub Patches or Scripts and the dual core optimization is disabled.
Usine Pro (without any editing limitation) costs 70€"
does that mean the same thing i think it means?
i'll be looking into everything you wrote more, and using it. thanks
that thread you wanted to find by senso, i read that a couple days ago and i used the guide that was based on to setup my tabletxp.
here is the quote from the main usine page "Usine Free is fully functional but you can't edit Sub Patches or Scripts and the dual core optimization is disabled.
Usine Pro (without any editing limitation) costs 70€"
does that mean the same thing i think it means?
i'll be looking into everything you wrote more, and using it. thanks
ops yeah do indeed you're right, multicore is disabled in free version, so yup you should gain consequently...
once i put deckadance in slow decoder/analysis mode, when loading both decks at the same time has the cpu going up to 78%, and while running with both deck a and deck b sidechain each other i am running at about 38-42%
right now i have everything setup: tabletPc, eks xp-5, presonus firebox, and dj mixer. works just like i want and i have some more ideas already starting up in my head.
thanks for the help
right now i have everything setup: tabletPc, eks xp-5, presonus firebox, and dj mixer. works just like i want and i have some more ideas already starting up in my head.
thanks for the help
started working on my samples, vox, mash-up channel.
to answer my original question, usine is the ideal environment for my setup
to answer my original question, usine is the ideal environment for my setup
cool, good luck on your setup! and don'y hesitate if you feel you're blocked, an other usiner often had a solution for me when i felt i was turning around..
thank you.
say is there a way to limit the range of the master tempo to allow for finer resolutions when controlling it with a midi controller? in my setup i'll probably never go to far below 120 and to high about say 135 so it would be nice to have that range.
say is there a way to limit the range of the master tempo to allow for finer resolutions when controlling it with a midi controller? in my setup i'll probably never go to far below 120 and to high about say 135 so it would be nice to have that range.
yes there is a module in syncro/time called master sync. drop it in your patch. there is a tempo input on wich you can put a fader
that have min 120 max 135 range.
that have min 120 max 135 range.
hope to get a better understanding of the midi in usine. say i have a fader that i midi learn to be controlled by a fader on my midi controller. is there a way to see the midi data lines the occur with midi learn so that you can insert for example math modules.
or do you have to add a midi in module and then attach that module to the fader (and add the math modules between the midi in and fader?
hope it makes sense what i'm asking.
because i want to create a fader or knob with dual functions for example a high/low pass filter knob on a dj mixer. so at .5 both high and low pass are off, at 0 low pass is at full and at 1 high pass is at full. I can do this in bomes.
should i be working with the "fader midi" module instead of a regular fader module?
thanks
or do you have to add a midi in module and then attach that module to the fader (and add the math modules between the midi in and fader?
hope it makes sense what i'm asking.
because i want to create a fader or knob with dual functions for example a high/low pass filter knob on a dj mixer. so at .5 both high and low pass are off, at 0 low pass is at full and at 1 high pass is at full. I can do this in bomes.
should i be working with the "fader midi" module instead of a regular fader module?
thanks
The midi fader is just differently labeled, it displays values as notes, if you want to do operations on midi you need to put a midi in module from there you get the midi infos yes.
then if you move a pot you should see the led blink on incoming data, and if your CC of pot is 5, you should see code1 is 5 and code 2 is the value from 0 to 127. then you can make math operation on value (code2) ie with logical modules a<b and a>b
to say if code2 is from 0 to 64, then create a new message (midi mess for LP), note you should then X2 the value otherwise max will be 64, and if superior at 64, will create the mess for LP.
this is one solution:
ps: don't take it as a blame, but maybe try now to post specific questions in "paching question" thread, some may be interested by same things, easier to refind..
then if you move a pot you should see the led blink on incoming data, and if your CC of pot is 5, you should see code1 is 5 and code 2 is the value from 0 to 127. then you can make math operation on value (code2) ie with logical modules a<b and a>b
to say if code2 is from 0 to 64, then create a new message (midi mess for LP), note you should then X2 the value otherwise max will be 64, and if superior at 64, will create the mess for LP.
this is one solution:
ps: don't take it as a blame, but maybe try now to post specific questions in "paching question" thread, some may be interested by same things, easier to refind..
thank you very much and you're right, that is a good idea to ask specific questions in the particular subforum.
that's a wonderful design.
that's a wonderful design.
hi again, working on the patch, here is a pic of what i did, i'll go back and try to refine it as i dont really need a midi out message.
the A-B module after the lo is A=127 to invert the fader otherwise the left hand part of the 2in1 knob still went from 0-127 and then the right hand part of the 2in1 knob 0-127. now it is left hand part of the knob 127-0, and right hand part of the knob 0-127
thanks
the A-B module after the lo is A=127 to invert the fader otherwise the left hand part of the 2in1 knob still went from 0-127 and then the right hand part of the 2in1 knob 0-127. now it is left hand part of the knob 127-0, and right hand part of the knob 0-127
thanks
hi beatniks, yup you're right to invert (it's cause i did the same with ableton, was invering range in ableton, forgot..).
indeed if you don't need midi messages there must be a simpler way, you won't need everything that go to "create", but more using the "pass" module, that will let pass code 2 only if cc is your pot cc, globally I think you can remove the create midi modules and replace them by some "pass" where what was going to code2 goes to in, and what went to create goes to pass inlet of the pass module. there must be a way to simplify the HP path a bit also..but you start to well understand, im sure you ll manage to do it..
see ya'
indeed if you don't need midi messages there must be a simpler way, you won't need everything that go to "create", but more using the "pass" module, that will let pass code 2 only if cc is your pot cc, globally I think you can remove the create midi modules and replace them by some "pass" where what was going to code2 goes to in, and what went to create goes to pass inlet of the pass module. there must be a way to simplify the HP path a bit also..but you start to well understand, im sure you ll manage to do it..
see ya'
thanks for responding so quickly and giving me some ideas on how to set it up. i'll keep working on it and let you know how it goes.
the invert in ableton is very handy.
the invert in ableton is very handy.
hi again, talking with bentosan more, i see an area i can improve my mixer. if you look in his diagram you see he doesn't use a highpass filter for filtering the highpass but instead uses an inverted lowpass filter. i believe the idea is that you would have the same settings on both lowpass filters (the one actually lowpassing and the one being inverted) so there is no colouring of the sound.
need to think out an invert trick for usine.
need to think out an invert trick for usine.
i think it's based on the phase. you have to make ie the lp filtered signal , then "subtract" this to the dry signal by inverting it's phase, the result should be the high pass. have to test but as audio sig seems to go from 0 to 1, thing the same trick 1-audio should act as a phase invert..
thanks for the fast reply, still gchatting with bentosan so we are looking at this together. i think you got the right idea. i'll try it and see what happens.
i see the delay module has a phase invert too, could a person use that with delay at zero?
thanks
thanks
yup you're right. should work at 0 and invert phase.
posted a new thread in patching but here is the pic but i don't think i'm doing it right? do i need to subtract the inverted from the original? i might be confusing myself but i thought you add the inverse phase to the main
thanks so much.
edit i should say i'm just testing with the left channel
thanks so much.
edit i should say i'm just testing with the left channel
ive not usine here, will try to make a pic when possible in the other tread. yes, subtract mean adding the inverted phase.
but you just need one filter LP then. dry to filter LP outputs LP, from that LP you inverse the phase with delay module and add it to dry, sum of booth should be hp.
but you just need one filter LP then. dry to filter LP outputs LP, from that LP you inverse the phase with delay module and add it to dry, sum of booth should be hp.
thank you, the pic would be handy when you have time, i can't seem to get it
The invert phase of the delay module is only for the feedback loop - typical used on modulated short delay times for flanging and stuff like that. The only thing you have to do invert the phase of the audio, is to multiply it with -1, for example with the -X module. Simple as that!!
Bjørn S
thank you for clearing that up bsork. in the patching subforum post i made, 23fx23 shows a working example, including how to delay the dry audio before it is summed with the inverted lowpass, to compensate for processing time.
do you know if there is any rule of thumb to this processing time?
thanks
do you know if there is any rule of thumb to this processing time?
thanks
As far as I know, most modules in Usine don't have any latency. The exception I guess would the FFT modules.
If you take the output from the filter module and subtract it from the unfiltered audio, you get what you want. If the filter is in LP mode, the "original audio - low passed" output will be a high passed version of the audio. If you want to check the result, add the low and high passed and you should get the original. To do a further check, you can substract that audio from the original and get silence.
In this slightly silly example, you'll hear the original audio. Remove the connection between the filter and the audio out, and you get a high passed version (if the filter is set to LP). If you keep the connection between the filter and audio out, and instead add a connection between -X.out to audio out, you should get total cancellation.
If you take the output from the filter module and subtract it from the unfiltered audio, you get what you want. If the filter is in LP mode, the "original audio - low passed" output will be a high passed version of the audio. If you want to check the result, add the low and high passed and you should get the original. To do a further check, you can substract that audio from the original and get silence.
In this slightly silly example, you'll hear the original audio. Remove the connection between the filter and the audio out, and you get a high passed version (if the filter is set to LP). If you keep the connection between the filter and audio out, and instead add a connection between -X.out to audio out, you should get total cancellation.
Bjørn S
oh, so simple, thx bsork, why didn't i try that! worth using that then.bsork wrote:The only thing you have to do invert the phase of the audio, is to multiply it with -1, for example with the -X module. Simple as that!!
yeah thanks bsork, up early here to start working this into my project
works great in my setup, i believe i have it colourless now. thank you so much with the help everyone.
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