How to select which device controls a patch in the grid

[sguyader]

Hi,

I'm a new user and please forgive me if my question has an easy answer, I couldn't figure it out.

Here's a description of my needs:
I want to see if I can use HH as a VSTi host, controlling several instruments from 2 keyboards in a live situation. Basically I use 6 VSTi's, each one with a number of presets to be loaded according to the actual song during the live set. I need the switch to be relatively fast, as sometimes I need to start the next song quickly after the previous one.

Here's what I have tried.

Scenario 1
The simplest solution I found:
- for each song, create a workspace, load only the required VSTi's
- each VSTi is a patch in its own rack, with the right MIDI device assigned
- save a workspace for each song
This way I can add each song/workspace to the "playlist" module to switch between songs. It's great but... the unloading/loading of racks takes too much time. Whatever the number of racks to load, it always takes overall 7 seconds until I can play a note. This is way too long.

Scenario 2
- create one complete workspace with the 6 racks containing 1 patch/VSTi
- create presets in each patch
- In the grid, I drop each patch/preset needed for one song in the same section (1 section = 1 song)
- add an automation with bypass on/off (so that the unused racks are not computed)
The good thing is that switching to next song is fast, since all the racks are preloaded in the workspace.
The less good thing is that each plugin occupy some RAM resources, in particular have a rack with a NI Kontakt Player instrument based on samples (Horns section) which occupies 1.3 GB of RAM by itself. It doesn't leave a lot of free RAM.
The bad thing: the input devices are not saved with the patch presets, so this leads to some undesirable side effects: some VSTi's listen to all the MIDI channels at the same time, and I get layered sounds where I don't want (because for some songs I want one VSTi to be played from keyboard #1, while for another song I need the same VSTi to be played from keyboard #2).

Scenario 3
- save rack presets according to the songs, with the relevant input MIDI device turned on/off
- drop the rack presets into the grid (instead of patch presets)
The good thing is that now it recalls which keyboard should trigger the VSTi.
The bad thing is that when I switch to the next song, the patch display doesn't update and is not reflecting anymore the settings used in the current song (I need to have a view of the knobs/faders/buttons that I have configured, particularly for the B3 organ VSTi which is central to my gigs, and which I tweak the drawbars and Leslie cabinet settings a lot during the performance).

So, my questions are:
- in scenario 1, is there a way to avoid the 7 seconds delay between each song? (I guess not, but I'm asking just in case)
- in scenario 2, is there a way to set up either the input MIDI device, or the MIDI channel used, and save that setup in the patch presets? I'm sure there's a easy way but I couldn't find it.
- in scenario 3, is there a way to have the patches UI reflect the changes when switching to a new rack preset?

Thanks in advance!

[joffo78]

hello. I'm sure you can procede in a simpler way only using the grid. On it you can put some rack or some patch and even , i think ,some devices on the lastest version.
With that i think it's easy to organize your work with each song is one or several sections of the grid.
-First i suggest you to create one rack for each input (your 2 keyboards for example)
- Create 2 vsti racks for each song . Put for each only vsti needed by each keyboard as differents patchs.
It doesn't matter if you create several rack with the same vsti inside. i think it's more important to have a clear "vision" of your workflow.
So if you've for example a song that use 3 vsti for each keyboard create to rack with There. ccreate as a section you have changes during your song . drop your two racks on all this section and your vsti patches only on the section that there are needed.
If you have different preset for the same vsti create different items on the same patch for each section and recall your preset number on the section grid preferences.
I hope it could help you.
JF

[sguyader]

Thanks joffo78 for your answer.
Indeed I already thought about what you suggested, and I had figured out the possibility to use several sections for one song, if the VSTi preset changes during the song.

I also already thought about creating 2 racks for each VSTi which can be played from either of the 2 keyboards (some other VSTi's are always played from the same keyboard, so for those only 1 rack is enough). However, I wanted to see if there's a more "economical" way to allow selecting the device from the grid. I think I have already tried to drop a device on the grid, but it didn't allow me to do it, I could only drop devices in the I/O sections of a rack (I'm using the latest HH build).
I have 16 songs in, my setlist, wouldn't it be too heavy to have 16x2 = 32 racks in the same workspace, knowing that some of those VSTi's are quite heavy on system resources? (I know CPU is not concerned as long as the racks are turned off, but they still reside in memory).

I also tried to use some rack preset recalls in grid sections, but the problem is that when the reading head of the section loops back, it cuts the audio output: if I'm playing sustained chord at that time, it gets cut and I have to hit the chord again.

I was hoping there would be some clever solution to avoid duplicating the racks.

[joffo78]

Dont worry About cpu usage with the grid . 32 rack is nothing and patchs are not calculated where there are desactivated.

[joffo78]

For your section problem it's possible to set it at pause instead off loop at the end

[sguyader]

Dont worry About cpu usage with the grid . 32 rack is nothing and patchs are not calculated where there are desactivated.

Yes I know for CPU, what concerns me more is RAM usage, especially for sampler VSTi's such as Kontakt Player with sample libraries loaded.

For your section problem it's possible to set it at pause instead off loop at the end

Oh! I didn't try that, I thought that "pause" would really pause everything. I'll try that later.
Thanks!

[joffo78]

Dont worry About cpu usage with the grid . 32 rack is nothing and patchs are not calculated where there are desactivated.

Yes I know for CPU, what concerns me more is RAM usage, especially for sampler VSTi's such as Kontakt Player with sample libraries loaded.
!

I don't know you should try...

[sguyader]

I think I found a reasonable alternative, a mix of scenarios 2 and 3. If I put patch presets in sections and add rack presets at the beginning of the sections, it allows me to recall the on/off state of the 2 keyboards as needed. And thanks to joffo78's tip, using pause mode for each section the preset recall event is triggered only at the beginning of the sections, so there are no glitches and audio cut anymore.
Now I'll see if it really works well for the full set, if it's the case and if the behaviour is reliable, I'll be able to use it for real, leave the demo mode and get me a license!

[sguyader]

I have good news: I guess I made a mistake while evaluating scenario 3: if I drop the same rack in 2 sections, and if I specify the presets in "recall preset on activation", when I switch between those sections the interface of the rack and its patches reflect the settings of the presets.
So, scenario 3 should work work me.
Just for fun, here's how my workspace looks like (with a detail of my B3 organ patch, with drawbars assigned to faders of my keyboard ):

[nay-seven]

Well done@sguyader !
Glad to see Usine suit your needs ! (and cool design btw)

[sguyader]

I wanted to try the touch faders, but... I couldn't find a way to assign them to physical faders on my midi keyboard, are they touch- and mouse-only?

[joffo78]

Unfortunatly it's impossible to détect touch fader behaviour
By midi because no such information is given by it.
But it's possible to reproduce by patch with counter module.

[x.iso]

I wanted to try the touch faders, but... I couldn't find a way to assign them to physical faders on my midi keyboard, are they touch- and mouse-only?

Check Control/MIDI tab, there you can enable any of 4 different types of parameters (X,Y,Z, switch) to output different CC's on assigned channels and also use Learn switch for any of them.

[sguyader]

Check Control/MIDI tab, there you can enable any of 4 different types of parameters (X,Y,Z, switch) to output different CC's on assigned channels and also use Learn switch for any of them.

I did check this Control/MIDI, and I tried to enable these parameters, but none of them seemed to allow what I want: I'm not trying to output MIDI data from the touch faders, I need them to move on screen when I move the physical faders from my controler (i.e. I want them to react to input MIDI data). I didn't find any "learn" switch whereas I can find it for regular faders.

[sguyader]

But it's possible to reproduce by patch with counter module.

Can you elaborate on this?

[x.iso]

Check Control/MIDI tab, there you can enable any of 4 different types of parameters (X,Y,Z, switch) to output different CC's on assigned channels and also use Learn switch for any of them.

I did check this Control/MIDI, and I tried to enable these parameters, but none of them seemed to allow what I want: I'm not trying to output MIDI data from the touch faders, I need them to move on screen when I move the physical faders from my controler (i.e. I want them to react to input MIDI data). I didn't find any "learn" switch whereas I can find it for regular faders.

here's how to assign CC to touch fader:


notice that you need your controller enabled in the input of the rack, also engine needs to be on for it to work.

[nay-seven]

touch fader has a different MIDI Learn process, you need to add your device in the rack input, connect it to the module and click to Ylearn ( in this case):

[nay-seven]

haha, cross post !

[sguyader]

@x.iso and @nay.seven, thank you. I tried something like that yesterday. I connected the device MIDI in to to the MIDI in port of the fader, I tried all of the X/Y/Z/SW MIDI setup (now I understand why only the Y is needed, for a vertical slider)... But maybe I didn't try all of those things together...

[x.iso]

it could also not work if you had engine stopped.

[sguyader]

it could also not work if you had engine stopped.

What I know is that I forgot something... I'll try later, after work!
I customized the touch faders to work as Hammond organ drawbars, they look nice! I prefer this solution over the customized knobman fader solution, because I don't like the fact that I have to move the mouse horizontally to make the drawbar move vertically.

[sguyader]

I think I'm going to revert to using basic Usine faders. I succeeded in assigning the physical faders to the touch faders, but the problem I faced is that when I switch to a new patch preset with a different configuration of faders, the touch faders don't don't change a stay in the same position as they were before the change. I don't have this problem with normal faders.

[x.iso]

Well since they obey your controller, maybe putting Pass if Changed between Midi input and Midi inlet could help. Then again, if you're using motorised controllers or some kind of endless knobs, that should adapt preset switching, then some additional stuff could be needed to make it work in same way. So try with "Pass if Changed" module, if that isn't enough, then it's easier with normal faders.

[sguyader]

Thanks x.iso. The faders on my controler (Novation Launchkey 49) are not motorized. I'll try to insert a Pass if changed module.