Micro sounds and granular in Usine

multiphone · Unread post by **multiphone** » 20 Apr 2011, 00:38

Hello,

I resume, for the moment we have 3 approach in Usine for micro sounds

1°) The Senso Patch "Grain engine"

This solution is based on the record grain and reorganization. Advantage this one is possible to use in real time (With the small latency of recording)

2°) The" Tanabarbier and friend" one

This solution is based on the grain module used like sort of cuter (classic use). It necessary to use it with sample in the example patch.

3°) The Caco One with Csound

Another proposition ?

multiphone · Unread post by **multiphone** » 20 Apr 2011, 09:41

@Headphoner,

Yes, i forget your patch, sorry, your approach is interesting, and without any "glitch".

@ Noise2sine

Yes, i have tested X-crusher Live few years ago, sounds really great, but it's closed environment. I test the new version today.

The most important things for X crusher is here:

"The crusher-X algorithm is based on the traditional granular synthesis algorithm (Xenakis, Roads, Wilkins) invented in the early 1950s. In granular synthesis, short (e.g. 50 milliseconds) sound fragments, "the grains," come from a fixed file buffer. The starting time, length and silence between the grains can be modulated. More than one grain at a time is possible, so you can create complex sound "clouds" from any sound signal.

A special feature is the floating sound buffer which allows real-time input and output. In this floating buffer the grains are created. You can apply many unusual parameters to the grains such as pitch, filter, pan, reverse, overdrive and limit - all within a simple, flexible interface.

All these granular parameters can be modulated by internal oscillator sources. A feedback loop inside the algorithm enables very complex and non-linear sound processing."

Best

caco · Unread post by **caco** » 20 Apr 2011, 09:56

I have uploaded a quick example of using Csound4Usine to do granular synthesis using the SyncGrain opcode. This is a quite a basic example but it shows how to get a stream of realtime audio into Csound's granular synthesis opcodes. For anyone wishing to go into more depth with granular synthesis in Csound take a look at the other granular opcodes here. The Partikkel opcode in particular is designed to cover all the granular synthesis methods discussed by Curtis Roads in his book 'Microsound'.

Download here

Audio Example

multiphone · Unread post by **multiphone** » 20 Apr 2011, 23:43

Hello Caco,

Thanks a lot for this exemple.

I'm waiting about the famous books of Curtis Road, and i try to enderstand the Csound code for use Partikel opcode.

Best

caco · Unread post by **caco** » 21 Apr 2011, 08:41

I haven't really dug too deep into Partikkel yet as it is a very complex opcode but at some point I want to create a GUI for it in Usine to make it easier to use. If you are new to Csound I would start off with Grain and Granule and build up to Partikkel once you are a bit more familar to its syntax . Partikkel scares even me slightly and I've been using Csound for many years

multiphone · Unread post by **multiphone** » 21 Apr 2011, 09:21

Hello,

Yes, but i'm little scared by Csound in general !

And i have some basic question about Csound syntax, so... step by step your right.

I have to read the Books of Curtis Road to understand deeply the Road approach of granular synthesis.

For info, Some of important elements of history and techniques are here www.granularsynthesis.com

Thanks for your advices Caco.

nay-seven · Unread post by **nay-seven** » 21 Apr 2011, 10:06

Thanks for the link Multiphone ! i've discover soundgrain on this page ( use Csound audio engine too ) and seems to give cool results and there's a graphical interface too, with a touch screen it's interesting .
A little cpu hungry but ok for sound design

multiphone · Unread post by **multiphone** » 21 Apr 2011, 10:40

Yes !

Your welcome.

Take a look to http://www.densitygs.com/

This is a very beautiful tool too, in Csound engine.

It will be very interesting to list some inovative feature for make an original grain tools in Usine, but the list of the existing things is very long.

multiphone · Unread post by **multiphone** » 21 Apr 2011, 10:44

Just for info...

Just an very old free tools by Nicolas Fournel i use a lot for sound design, no equivalent for the sound as i know...

http://www.nicolasfournel.com/granulator.htm

Best

pylône · Unread post by **pylône** » 21 Apr 2011, 12:12

Hello

I'm also interested by granular and micro sounds. So i downloaded the syncgrain that i didn't know, but when i want put it in the patch place i have the message : can't find the user module c:/Misc/Usine library/c4u/Csound/Csound.usr.
Thanks in advance for help.

multiphone · Unread post by **multiphone** » 21 Apr 2011, 12:28

Hello Laurent,

Yes,

You will have to place the "user module" that you find here

http://www.sensomusic.com/downloadaddon ... c4u102.zip

In

C:Usine Pro StandAlone 5.50.55FilesModulesUser

Before to load the patch

Best

nay-seven · Unread post by **nay-seven** » 21 Apr 2011, 12:49

a little precision : you can put all users modules in your personal library ( better for update process )
you check the last Wiki tips here
but the most important for Csound module is that your csd files must be in the same repertory than this module ( there's a how to install.txt in the archive )

pylône · Unread post by **pylône** » 21 Apr 2011, 22:22

Hello Hervé, Hello nay-seven,

Many thanks for your help.
I installed the csound as you told me + the win32exe.
But when i put it in the patch and swith on there is nothing. Do i forgot something?

nay-seven · Unread post by **nay-seven** » 21 Apr 2011, 22:37

you have drag and drop SyncGrain.pat from your library in an empty patch in Usine...?

multiphone · Unread post by **multiphone** » 22 Apr 2011, 08:49

Very rare videos about history of Granular synthèsis with Curtis Road im self !!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajdRGF5NHIs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ehu8u_J ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ul4y_e3TLyk

Very interesting !!!

nay-seven · Unread post by **nay-seven** » 22 Apr 2011, 10:27

great,
as you say , very interesting !
thanks !

multiphone · Unread post by **multiphone** » 26 Apr 2011, 16:37

Hello,

Here's a new idea to improve a test granular patch.

http://www.sensomusic.com/forums/upload ... _cloud.zip

This time I think the form, the organization of grains and also the scanning of the sample are more efficient.

nay-seven · Unread post by **nay-seven** » 26 Apr 2011, 17:00

great !
you've found a book about gardens..?

have to study your patch but i like the result !

multiphone · Unread post by **multiphone** » 26 Apr 2011, 17:15

Hahahah ! Yes !

In fact ... this book about the gardens ...

I ordered it !!

With the famous "Microsound" just to get the true sources in hand.
The garden is not as easy as it look as ... as granular synthesis.

But i'm totaly facineted by the writing of "Novanina"

http://www.novarina.com/index.php

or the poetry of Ghérasim Lucas

http://editions-hache.com/luca/luca1.html

I think this patch is starting to show some interesting things but I hit some limit Factory. I'm not misguided "Density" application Max made . But I must still improve a lot of things and consumption processor plant is too large to push far enough.

Maybe a simpler way ?

headphoner · Unread post by **headphoner** » 27 Apr 2011, 13:23

Hi Hervé,

I,ve tested your patch and i can i say that i like the scan sample function.

Have to test more it more.

Good job!

multiphone · Unread post by **multiphone** » 27 Apr 2011, 13:48

Hello Headphoner,

Yes, It's more interesting like that for produce some granular textures, but i'ts just a beginning.

The scan sample, the grain shape and the overlay (Sync grains or kind of No sync...)are very simple for the moment.

A study the question deeply.

capitan mission · Unread post by **capitan mission** » 29 Apr 2011, 00:11

multiphone wrote:Very rare videos about history of Granular synthèsis with Curtis Road im self !!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajdRGF5NHIs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ehu8u_J ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ul4y_e3TLyk

Very interesting !!!

Great! I saw these videos months ago, one of the causes that I got interested in microsound.
I want to buy the book "The Computer Music Tutorial" by Curtis Road. I give it a look via internet, it covers almost every aspect of electronic music, its a BIG book. Is from years ago, but the info is timeless.

multiphone · Unread post by **multiphone** » 29 Apr 2011, 13:47

Hello Capt'ain,

Yes !!

The equivalent Book translated in French is called "L'audionumérique, Musique et informatique" THE BASIC BIBLE for electronic or électroacoustic Musician !

Best

capitan mission · Unread post by **capitan mission** » 29 Apr 2011, 19:36

Hello Herve
You're lucky! Theres no Spanish translation for this book. Well, I can read English, but it would be good.

multiphone · Unread post by **multiphone** » 29 Apr 2011, 20:22

Yes ! But i'm actually reading "Microsounds" the other book of C.R. and is in English... No way for granular sounds at this moment

headphoner · Unread post by **headphoner** » 22 Jun 2011, 10:32

Hi,

it seems that in the next usine's release we'll have a good solution

granulator

martignasse · Unread post by **martignasse** » 22 Jun 2011, 14:45

hehe, it's informative to look at the wiki

pretty effective solution in fact

here some test :

a raw output of the module with the 1kHz tone as input

a more obscure test with a resonator after the granulator

grain synthesis is a very very huge deep world !

tanabarbier · Unread post by **tanabarbier** » 22 Jun 2011, 18:34

Aaaaaah ! What an excitment !

Is there an approximative date for the release of this incredibly waited new version of usine ?

Oh and it's a bit off topic but, if Usine 6 is 64 bits, does it mean that it will actualy be able to work with more than 3Go of RAM ?

Thanks !

headphoner · Unread post by **headphoner** » 22 Jun 2011, 19:04

sounds good!

What is the audio source in the 2nd and how many granulator modules did you use?

And about the cpu?

Bravo!

martignasse · Unread post by **martignasse** » 22 Jun 2011, 19:28

sorry, can't remember the audio source, too much test

only one granulator but two resonator.

cpu is very light, about 0.3% the module alone, here on my CoreDuo 6400.

Clearscreen · Unread post by **Clearscreen** » 23 Jun 2011, 02:38

I've got a use in mind for this already!! Brilliant!!

caco · Unread post by **caco** » 11 Jul 2011, 17:01

The those of you interested in granular synthesis there is a new synthesis program released using Csound as the audio engine.

It is basicly a wrapper around Csound's partikkel opcode which pretty much implements the entire Microsound book by Curtis Roads. It is designed to be used in M4L but the standalone Csound code is freely available so there is no reason it couldn't be altered to work in Usine too.

Looks pretty interesting

http://www.partikkelaudio.com/

headphoner · Unread post by **headphoner** » 11 Jul 2011, 17:14

hi,

i quickly tested it yesterday with winxound. really cool!

Have to transform it for c4u

headphoner · Unread post by **headphoner** » 01 Sep 2011, 18:22

Hi,

I need some feedbacks about this

graincloud sampler

nay-seven · Unread post by **nay-seven** » 01 Sep 2011, 19:14

I've quickly test, here some feedback, most on the patching side

* generally when you drag & drop a sample , this sample is automatically played, here no ?
* the list box for the samples can have hide path/hide extension options ON ?
* for the wave display the show loop option is on , but we can't really use it cause the sample is always fully played ?
* a limiter can be useful in some case?

headphoner · Unread post by **headphoner** » 01 Sep 2011, 20:29

Thanks a lot nay-seven!

i uploaded a new version with modifications

graincloud sampler2

-loop can be change
-a limiter
-the list box without "c:// etc....."

I still have a problem with the drag & drop and with the clear list

I'm not a pro "string text"

have to work more

bsork · Unread post by **bsork** » 01 Sep 2011, 22:13

It eats CPU cycles like there's no tomorrow, but - hey - this is one is

!!!

multiphone · Unread post by **multiphone** » 01 Sep 2011, 23:18

Hello headphoner,

10/10 for the sound !

Perhaps some simplification to do.

It is me who said that?

Realy nice.

Best

headphoner · Unread post by **headphoner** » 02 Sep 2011, 18:47

Hi,

third version

i resolved drag & drop problem and put some modifications

graincloud sampler3

feedback still welcome

nay-seven · Unread post by **nay-seven** » 02 Sep 2011, 21:51

Cool ! great one !
some ideas :
an audio thru option when recording..?
64 poly is a little too much for my cpu, but maybe my problem

the apply button is not really in the same color scheme than the others..?

headphoner · Unread post by **headphoner** » 02 Sep 2011, 23:34

thanks nay-seven for your useful feedback!

"audio thru option" do you mean an "rec and play" option?

64 poly is my problem too, i can't go up to 24 with my laptop so 32 poly max is enough may be =D

color button ok

nay-seven · Unread post by **nay-seven** » 02 Sep 2011, 23:45

no, was mote thinking in a reel audio thru, this mean, you hear what you record..?
actually when you press rec, you hear nothing..not easy..?

YouTube · Unread post by **senso** » 03 Sep 2011, 16:18

about cpu load, I don't understand why you put a sampler in the poly sub patch, as they are exactly the same?
You could divide the cpu by at least 3.
But maybe, I misunderstood...

headphoner · Unread post by **headphoner** » 03 Sep 2011, 18:25

Hi,

i have to use one sampler with one granulator to modify the speed or and modify the start position for each grain of sound without glitch.

GDLive · Unread post by **GDLive** » 07 Sep 2011, 16:47

Awesome, very good work, headphoner !

headphoner · Unread post by **headphoner** » 29 Sep 2011, 15:42

Hi,

Here the last version of my graincloud sampler

GSC

nay-seven · Unread post by **nay-seven** » 30 Sep 2011, 21:21

really interesting results , love the way you manage the rec too
will use it for sure !

caco · Unread post by **caco** » 15 Nov 2012, 14:37

In case anyone is interested Hadron ( a Csound-based granular effect) is now available as a VST - http://www.partikkelaudio.com/

Off to test it now

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