MIDI clip triggering problem using piano roll

[KennyG5000]

Congrats first off on this brilliant piece of innovative software, love the possibilities this presents. I am currently trying out Hollyhock with the idea of implementing a system similar to Ableton live's performance mode, but am mainly interested in triggering midi clips to create different scenes on the fly. I tried setting this up first using the grid, but found the jumping (especially backwards to earlier sections) gave me one or two glitches so abandoned that method.

I next tried synchronizing the piano roll's num node to try and trigger clips via a set of synchronized switches but have found that if there is a note at the very beginning of the bar it gets missed on the first cycle and only picked upon subsequent loops. I have the piano roll quantized to start on cycle also. I would have thought this is how the piano roll was designed to be used so I feel I must be doing something really silly, but cannot get the piano roll patterns to trigger successfully on the beginning of a cycle without dropped notes unfortunately.

Has anyone experienced this issue, or managed to get it working, as this is what I would really like to use Hollyhock for.

I did find that if you set up multiple piano rolls in a rack a 'flipped' between via synchronized switches this worked perfectly, but the patch is majorly convoluted, and I am sure not a very CPU efficient way of setting up a basic thing.

As a further side note, I come from Reaktor programming to this, and was wondering how you trigger a static constant using the modules (like the 'Value' macro in Reaktor). Say if a switch outputs a 1 when on but I need this value to change to a 3 to dispatch some data (but in this patch it also needs to output the 1 to trigger an array value). Also is there anything like Reaktor's 'Order' module? This module is so useful when building in Reaktor, I am struggling to patch in HH without something similar to order events.

Thanks for taking the time to read this, sorry it went on a bit!

[nay-seven]

Hello kennyg5000 and welcome,
here a patch with 4 patterns and group switches, maybe can suit your needs
Download

i love reaktor, but not about deep patching, if i undersatnd, to change 1 for 3, you can use a multiply module ? , to trigger from a switch you can check the From 0 to 1 modules ?

[KennyG5000]

Hi Nay-Seven, thanks for getting back to me, that was quick! The patch you set up was exactly what I had in mind but it appears (on my set up at least) to have the same behaviour I was describing. If you have a look at this patch when you get the chance:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/iaptvp7etcbh4 ... n.pat?dl=0

it is just your patch once more, only I changed the MIDI to one long (unmusical!) single note per pattern to demonstrate what I am getting. When I sent the MIDI to Usine to have a look at what was going on, on changing the pattern you got this:

MIDI in : 128 (NOTE OFF) - 60 - 00 [Chan=1]
MIDI in : 144 (NOTE ON) - 61 - 127 [Chan=1]
MIDI in : 128 (NOTE OFF) - 61 - 00 [Chan=1]


So here it seems MIDI note 61 (the first note of the new pattern) is correctly getting a NOTE ON message first, but then it is triggering a subsequent NOTE OFF message straight after (this note off is not present if the pattern then cycles again). I only noticed this behaviour as I was triggering an arpeggiated synth line originally (I don't just write music consisting of single long notes honestly!). Could this be a bug, or is it specific only to my set up? I also have to say it is intermittent, but occurs virtually every time I switch the patterns in sync.

As I noticed if you flip between to different pianorolls with different patterns this note off will not trigger at the beginning of the cycle.

Any help on this issue is of course greatly appreciated of course!

On the front of the Value module, I did just find that the 'Set Array Value' will do the trick, you can just set it to Index 0, and a value, and then the Array out node seems to trigger a single value that you can freely specify. I guess scripting would be the better solution but I haven't gone into that yet (could be a bit of a steep learning curve I fear!).

Thanks again for any input on this!

[nay-seven]

ok, so you're right , there's a solution to find here, as your piano roll synchro is set to cycle and your note is long Usine send the note OFF when we change the pattern and this disturb it in a way, we gone to check this.
here a kind of workaround but only when notes are not the complete length
download

[KennyG5000]

Thanks for posting workaround, shows the great strength of this modular set up that there is nearly always a solution to issues that crop up! Out of curiosity I set the note to last the full length of the cycle, and the only issue was that this note now carries forward to the new pattern (doesn't get a Note Off command). My heavy handed approach then was just to try sticking a MIDI CC 120 message to trigger each cycle to cut all MIDI notes, and though not very elegant solution, does exactly what I was hoping to achieve so very happy!

I had an increasingly complex multi piano roll patch I was trying to build but using just one piano roll will work so much better, so thanks again for taking time to sort this out for me.

Here is my very slight modification to the patch:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/iaptvp7etcbh4 ... n.pat?dl=0

Will now continue to explore Hollyhock to see if I can realise the rest of my set up using it (but certainly looks v promising now!).

[nay-seven]

Glad to see your enthusiasm and that you find a solution ! it's our better work engine

I don' t see any difference in the patch you post, maybe not the good version ?

[KennyG5000]

Yes, sorry about that, posted the original patch by mistake! It really is all just your work on solving the issue, all I added was a 'All notes off' MIDI CC message on cycle. This should be the modified patch link:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/frpw4d8wcqrhg ... r.pat?dl=0

One thing I did notice last night when tracing the output of the 'MIDI create message' instead of showing the type of message and CC number it just displays a '1' when triggered. I thought this might be intentional but then it will trace the Note on/Note off messages fully. I am definitely highlighting the blue MIDI cable when tracing, but thought might be worth mentioning if it was something unintentional.

I have to add that one of the many great things about HH is that you are creating a piece of wholly innovative software here that has never been done before, a fullly modular DAW. Though I haven't tried it yet I am very eager to see how HH can hook up to Softube Modular, I think there will be some very exciting possibilities there! Thanks again for all your help, very impressive forum support here.

[nay-seven]

Thanks for the patch

About the MIDI create module , can you easily recreate this result ? if yes , how

And thanks again for your kind words

[KennyG5000]

No problem at all. In the last patch I sent you (now renamed MIDI Clip Looper), I added a 'MIDI Create Message' module sending a CC 120 on each cycle. If you click on the blue MIDI cable, which opens the trace window within the patch window (not the master trace that opens at the top, haven't yet checked there), you should see a '1' output each time the cycle starts. This threw me somewhat initially as I was expecting CC 120 to output, but it definitely is cutting all notes so the MIDI CC is being sent.

I thought this must be by design but if you change the MIDI message type to 'Note on', in the patch's trace field you now see 'idx:0 NOTE ON 120 0 c:1'. It was just a very small observation but thought it may help to see the CC displayed in this format too (it is possible it my not display correctly for other message types, I have to confess I did not check them all).

Hope this helps and keep up the good work (must be some very complex code to maintain I don't doubt!).

[nay-seven]

ok, thanks for the precision, it's what i first understand, but can't reproduce here , trace display the CC message too:



Can i ask which OS/ version you use ?

[KennyG5000]

Okay so this must relate directly to my set up here then. I am running Windows 7 Home Premium SP 1 (Intel I7 4790K @ 4.00 GHz, 8 Gb Ram) and the version of HH 3 is 3.0.136 64 bit. Here is an image of what I am getting:

(edit: Cannot get my image embedded properly but link will take you to my screenshot!)

I did a quick check and Note on/off display, pitchbend does also, but aftertouch, program change and CC just output a '1' on the trace on my set up. It is certainly not a big deal anyway as it all works as in sending the right midi message, it is just the display on the trace for debugging patches really.

[nay-seven]

ok, confirmed on PC,
for the CC message, only if = or > to 100 display 1 , thanks for this feedback