instant audio export

[pansoul]

hello
in software like cubase or live, there is non real time export function that allow to export a midi track playing a vsti as audio. is Such a function conceivable in usine? if yes do you think that it could work without stop audio flow which is not the case under cubase.
thanks
vincent

[senso]

do you mean the 'freeze track' function?
not so easy to implement in Usine because it's a mostly live oriented soft.
The best way to do that is to use the record (direct to disk) function and export the track into another track of the sequencer.
works fine and can do a good job.

[pansoul]

sorry i did not use the right word, i mean a real time mixdown but for vsti

[pansoul]

i searched on the vst3 sdk that i download on steinberg site and i didn't find anything about instant mixdown.
and when i load a vst in usine which i know to work with the instant mixdown in cubase, i don't see what output could produce what i'am looking for. it is even probable that this function doesn't need an output because it produces a file.
do you know how it's work with other software ?

[bsork]

Hi, it's a real time function (Usine is designed for playing live, after all), but Record Direct to Disk will let you export to audio - it's the little circle in the dashboard. You can choose between recording inputs, outputs or tracks, and it has an option to import the file directly to a patch in the sequencer.

[pansoul]

Yes it's a real time function, it's not what i'am looking for. But my purpose is real time. For example if i can export a midi file played by a Vsti instlantly i will can to play it reverse without wait to record it until the end ( that will become the beginning).

the instant mixdown function work for most of vst instrument but not with a sequencer running so i don't if it's possible. i know that it's probably complicated, if you have any suggestions...

[23fx23]

interesting. basically you want an instant reverse, but that is able to have a complete even not finished bar loop or just instant reverse at anytime? yup that must be hard to quick export in bg while still playing, would be awesome also.

the boring workaround would be to first export the whole vst seq..
if not needed to have the end there are few instant reverse vst plugins that buffer audio and instant reverse when pressing.
usine sampler can record live and a swich that would stop rec and reverse at the same time should make an instant reverse maybe.
but I think you want a bit more...

[pansoul]

yes i want a bit more, about reverse it was only an example , but there are a lot of others possibilities for such a function so what what i am looking for is not a combination with a sample player/recorder.

Sure it can't take 1ms to export even 5s of a small vsti but it can be fast i think. i dont know if there are special agreement between certain vst producer and steinberg to be able to do that or if it is in the vst norm (probably the 2nd case but i cant find where it is in the vst sdk doc)

[amiga909]

well...(if I get u) u could copy a vst+midi patch, run the cloned patch at double bpm, record it and timestretch it back to the original bpm?
guess, u would like to have something easier: but u gotta consider u had to determine the sampling length in advance anyway, + that sampled version would not react to changes you make in real time (changes that fall in the sampling length interval).
however, imho its a very special interest idea. nothing wrong with it, but I doubt it would be so useful after all.

[ethnix73]

Why not a sampler/recorder? i don't really understand what you want to achieve...what limitations do you see?

[23fx23]

...or you delay of 1 bar your playback and reverse/edit a clone audio that is not delayed, must be an issue also to delay one bar...

kind of magic to create something that don't exist yet, certainly has to do with Vst norms as you point, not sure any soft sadly could render while playback. I don't doubt there must be cool uses regading the applications, but i m also really wondering about what they could be.. any example? as amiga says if doesn't record the live tweakingz, why not have a premade rendered clone, or delay or amiga nice old 2x tape record simulation...

from what i understand that would mean one vst should run 2 audio process at the same time, 1 for boucing, one for playing,
seems impossible no?

edit: re read your posts: you mean cubase is able to bounce/speed freeze while still playing?

[pansoul]

run the cloned patch at double bpm, record it and timestretch it back to the original bpm?

yes i have thing to this method or even to play a sequence 3 or 4 octave higher but the timestrech process to come back to the real note would probably be very destructive and some patch have enveloppe that don't react the same way on all octave so the result could be very different.

what limitations do you see?

If want to use any effect that modify time progress of a sound i prefer use audio file. you can modify the midi sequence but the result is not similar in the same way that to sample 1 midi note and to loop the beginnig 10 times will not give the same result that to play ten midi note... but it's only an other example, don't focalize on it. in many aspects midi and audio can't be manipulate in the same way.

edit: re read your posts: you mean cubase is able to bounce/speed freeze while still playing?

no it is just what it can't do

not sure any soft sadly could render while playback

yes i think you are right, but i think it can be programmable for instance use one core to playback and one other to render.

[23fx23]

make sense.
would be really nice, also im quite sure this would mean to load 2xtimes the same vst, so 2x times cpu/..also ram, but if only rendering when you decide must be really nice, mmm yup if usine has no other render than real time seems not doable, in usine directly,

was wondering if you use usine to control vst in cubase, does a non realtime cubase bouncewould work? I guess the answer is no...

[pansoul]

yes it's probably true that a vst can't bounce and playback at the same time.
-if we load it twice we would have to load/unload it dynamically the save cpu
-without to be obliged to load it twice , perhaps it's possible to render the midi sequence in two time :
if the original sequence contain several note , you render the first note that must take a short time and you immediately play it before to render all the sequence. you will only have a small latency at the beginning.

does a non realtime cubase bouncewould work? I guess the answer is no...

perhaps the plug that don't permit it are vst1 or something like that so it is not a problem with usine or cubase i guess

[23fx23]

so might be possible to clones vst in usine and in cubase, rec(sorry play) the first note in usine while bouncing in cubase..running 2 usines instances. wihout latency at start..

one usine instance in non audio just send midi for cubase bouce, one usine audio on play the first note, then swich to the rendered file and swich off the patch. a bit complex and depends on uses also... I understand you may ask for non realtime "real time vsti mixdown" export directly in usine, I would second but not bielieving too much, and could understand it must be ouch..very complex to implement sadly,

[pansoul]

so might be possible to clones vst in usine and in cubase, rec the first note in usine while bouncing in cubase..

good idea rather than try to reproduct it in usine, to use it in cubase. but sure that it is probably a bit complex.

i think to a midi message sent by usine that trig a macro for render in cubase and after to get back the file, when cubase render , i suppose that it takes the hand over all process so you need to use a second computer and to get back generated file between computers. arghhh !!!

[23fx23]

hehe 2X times cpu/ram wanting to go to the future or ya need a quad with dedicated 2x cpu tor cubase 2x for usine,and hardrive per app... sure I wouldn't risk network upon that!