liveOSC challenge

23fx23 · Unread post by **23fx23** » 27 Feb 2010, 16:40

EDIT: CURRENT BUILD 1.02 AVAIBLE HERE:
http://sensomusic.com/forums/uploads.ph ... 0V1.02.rar

anyone with me on my next challenge:

getting ableton live grid with clips status, colors and captions (and probably more) using liveOSC right to some usine cells in IB.
as the lemur can get it with osc, there should be no reasons we couldn't catch this with usine?

I dealed a long time ago with live Api for live 6 and i could get control of simple parameters like tempo from usine.
but here my new tries with liveOSC fail again and again. im focused on latest liveOSC for live 8.

the latest updated version seems to locate here:
http://monome.q3f.org/browser/trunk/LiveOSC

and need python 2.5 or more?

i tryed installing python 2.51 and liveosc but i didn't manage to communicate yet... I know usine send right osc message but
live doesn't update, neither send infos, so the pb comes from live/python, but im not really keen on python scripts...
anyone wants to try with me?

nay-seven · Unread post by **nay-seven** » 27 Feb 2010, 17:16

I've saw this..
http://rasmussen.page27.com/archives/22
maybe can help you..?

23fx23 · Unread post by **23fx23** » 27 Feb 2010, 17:22

yes thanks nay, unfortunatlely the live api has been let down since live 7.3 if i well remember, but i found interesting things in it.

arf seems far more complicate than i thought...anyway i keep on..

23fx23 · Unread post by **23fx23** » 27 Feb 2010, 17:55

hourrra now i get some infos from live wououuu

23fx23 · Unread post by **23fx23** » 27 Feb 2010, 21:32

yeaahh with new usine OSC options i manage to get clips and track names!, clips playing positons and lengh/loop, can easy triger clip of i track, i slot nb.
as well as clip colors!!!!, but weird is that live returns an integer color where it seems that R and B values of RGB are inverted, well i guess there is a math solution to find out...

edit: yes two RGB color modules to reroute R to G and vice versa and yeahhh now colors are ok!
(very cool martin to have the color input on Rgb module)

cool no more weird long midi assign, names and color, just miss now clip status and im ready to build a new OSC grid

nay-seven · Unread post by **nay-seven** » 27 Feb 2010, 21:35

that's great news 23fx !
Sure we'll see some ableton users here soon..

gurulogic · Unread post by **gurulogic** » 27 Feb 2010, 22:27

Care to share a quick step by step on how to get started, maybe some help with configuring my LiveOSC.py file? I so far cannot get anything at allcfrom LiveOSC in 8.11.

23fx23 · Unread post by **23fx23** » 28 Feb 2010, 00:02

note im on 8.1, but i supose i still work with 8.11.
here is a link to my osc files i tweaked a bit:
http://www.sensomusic.com/forums/upload ... OSCfox.rar

so if i well remember how i got it workin, cause it really drive me mad for a while i couldn't get anything.
it had some magical in it

mmm
downloaded the two files here:
http://monome.q3f.org/wiki/LiveOSC
copied LiveOSC folder in live remote midi script folder.
replaced osc.py by the second file OSC(no_struct).py (renamed to OSC) so it's supposed to not need python.. (oterwise got 2.51)
run usine, acivate osc and set active port to 9001. (here my local ip looks like 192.168.1.33)

my first test to debug was to receive/send tempo. :
receive: create a receive osc module, one data, set it's name to " /live/tempo" if you move tempo from live should see the value update.
send: create a send osc module, one data , set it's name idem "/live/tempo", set port to 9000 (emit on 9000, receive on 9001)
set value to float. if connecting a fader to data1 it controls live tempo on changes. (note you may send a request before being able to receive, im not sure).. in ip field i got 127.0.0.1

note that don't try to put a pass if chg out of receive to the fader back to send or it will create crasy loops, i found the solution to stop sending if receiving, it works. edit: Better stop updating if sending in fact

then i picked up everything that seemed interesting in the list you provided me and tried to send request and get results, once you get it working you quick understand. Geting captions is simpler that i would have thinked. the colors weren't working, i searched for a long time and found a tweak ,modified the LiveOsc.py file to get them working comparing some differences with another i found included in a lemur patch version.
so take all from my rar, it should work, no ip to set in py files as it's set to "localhost"
it's hot! im very excited, cause an old forgotten dream comes true, certainly a lot of work, cause i not yet master all refresh and scrolling tricks, but an ableton usine powered lemur is for sure doable now...

oops: just seen there a big pb to slove: the live file is corrupted when saved and reopen, don't save!

gurulogic · Unread post by **gurulogic** » 28 Feb 2010, 01:36

Thanks! That works!
Unfortunately this doesn't seem to work yet with Usine as a VST in Live...any ideas?

How to you translate the OCS receive from clip names back into text? Numbers to text, hmmm..
Also, I am saving and reloading fine so far...no corruption.

edit:
hrmmm.. I seem to have had a complete OSC failure and nothing works anymore.grrr..

23fx23 · Unread post by **23fx23** » 28 Feb 2010, 05:10

mmm no idea for vst/i yet..... just tried in usinemain, didn't thought about that , arf,

for caption yes when request /live/clip/name it returns an array of number on data3, wich in fact is a string, so no need to convert that's cool, just make it pass if cell nb match to the caption input, easycool.

mmm you save live project without corrupt, cool damned what is wrong with me.

the limitation i didn't found solution yet is the requests for names and color seems to be asking for whole clips of the liveset
starting from 0, that's not a cool way do deal if you have a big liveset, there is a suposed /live/name/clipblock wich is suposed to request an area only
but i can't get it work, and ive just seen captions and colors are trunked if requested together, when clips have no caption i can get up to 20 clips color scroll in a track, but when i put caption some get blacks...
welll tripping out solutions..

23fx23 · Unread post by **23fx23** » 28 Feb 2010, 18:11

gurulogic wrote:hrmmm.. I seem to have had a complete OSC failure and nothing works anymore.grrr..

from what ive tested when pb i go in live, swich of liveosc (set to none), quit usine and live.
then restart Live first, then usine, then in live reput liveosc, this should work again.

loveandelectrik · Unread post by **loveandelectrik** » 14 Mar 2010, 04:44

awesome! thanks for the guides,
using these tweaked osc files i have it working in one direction,
followed the guide to test the tempo/send as above but only works one direction,,,
sending osc to live,, fader sends to live tempo, brilliant,,
other way around i see the osc data in trace window but cant see activity on osc receive object,
any clues? i tried changing ip from 0 - 127.0.0.1, didnt help,
ps, im on windows,, not sure if these files are for mac maybe?

loveandelectrik · Unread post by **loveandelectrik** » 14 Mar 2010, 04:47

nevermind,, there was a space infront of my /live/tempo
this is awesome,, im new to osc and mad excited!

", i found the solution to stop sending if receiving, it works."
wondering what is this magical solution ?

loveandelectrik · Unread post by **loveandelectrik** » 14 Mar 2010, 06:17

this is so much fun, messing around with /live/track/meter right now, works great with power set to 25,
anybody get anything from /live/name/clip or /live/name/track?
im not getting anything but seeing data from trace

23fx23 · Unread post by **23fx23** » 14 Mar 2010, 14:31

HI loveandelectrik:
be sure you set your port in osc usine setup to 9001 to get feedback from live, but as you seen data tracein, it should work..
for example if you see tempo in trace in, drop a n oscreceive named /live/tempo, the receive led should blink and data updtate.
sometimes you may have to drop a 4x or more osc receive, cause the data we are interested in are 3rd or 4th..
edit: it seems you found...

if ou patient a bit more, I tweaked a bit more osc files, for now i got a sexy 4x4 beta with succesfully working bi directionnal:

_unlimited XY scroll
_track names,meters,clipposition
_master meter-volume
_clips status, names, colors,
_each track volume,sends, mute,solo,arm
_all devices of a track accessible via combo box: names, pots update
_master crossfader and tracks A-B assign
_master play/stop.
_global quantize.

all i might miss now is to setup the returns tracks info/control and master devices.
i ve also made a list box that display actual playing clip looplengh that can be changed on the fly (kind of manual beat repeat, juicy)

what is freaking good is that then it seems absolutely 0 midi assign is needed.

should be finished in less than a month cause want to make it clean.(maybe will update it to 8x4).
I just hope ableton won't change indexnames in next updates, and will one day officially support Osc.

...but names should work with the Osc files you have:
to get names there are several posibilities:
A) /live/name/clipblock is an 4 lengh Osc send mess ie 0,0,4,4 returns names starting at track 0,clip0, of lengh 4track, 4 clips. but unfortunatenly it seems sometimes buggy (seems liveosc fault)( sad cause so more handy), and for this to work you need to have at least 4 tracks.
the receive module should be Osc 16 (4x4) or 32, and each caption is one after the other, like Tr0clip0 name, then Tr1,clip0 name,Tr2clip0 name,Tr3clip0name, Tr0clip1name ect...

B1) "manual" request of a specific clip: /live/name/clip with a 2 lengh mess: ie 1,2 returns name of clip 2 on track 1.
osc receive should be a 4 lengh mess (tid,cid, caption, color)
that's what i finally used to be sure of no dropouts, but to get several names need to make ramps so that it asks one after the other clip 0,1,2,3 ect..

loveandelectrik · Unread post by **loveandelectrik** » 15 Mar 2010, 11:55

so awesome thanks for your help! i want to ask you so many questions but dont want to annoy you and take you away from your project lol!! any chance i can take a peek at your beta version, i can probably reverse engineer and figure out a lot by looking at your patch if you dont mind,, mines coming along but so much learning to do,, got the clip names, positions and such but having problem with feedback, colors and also missing the last character of names,,
anything you need man,, let me know

loveandelectrik · Unread post by **loveandelectrik** » 15 Mar 2010, 12:27

/live/volume

making sure i understand correctly,,
fader to data 2., data 1 = channel.
fader set min 0- max 1
sent to 9000, tried osc float and integer,
ip 127.0.0.1
broadcast on, send on,,
nothing receiving,, osc send message blinking in usine, nothing responding in abl live,,,
sorry for all the questions,, once i get a couple basics understood i should be able to pick up the paces and learn more on my own

any idea what im doing wrong?

23fx23 · Unread post by **23fx23** » 15 Mar 2010, 13:25

you are not doing wrong, i had same pb,

problem is by default live OSc need a message composed
by an integer and a float, and in usine we set the send osc either on float or integer, for both messages.

I modified the osc python script so usine can send both float , and the script interpret first digit (track nb)
as a int, and second (float volume) as a float, (otherwise track nb isn't interpreted). Im at work now but will try to upload my latest osc files this evening...

loveandelectrik · Unread post by **loveandelectrik** » 15 Mar 2010, 22:56

u rock! thanks mang,,
got clip names working,, updating fine,, i suppose you have to send an extra msg when /live/clip/info returns value #0 on data #3 to have it clear the caption name? trying to wrap my brain around this

also in your setup you say you have 4x4 grid with navigation?
just wondering if thats possible or if you meant something else by navigation,,
thats pretty amazing if you are scrolling up down left right with your 4x4 clip grid!

23fx23 · Unread post by **23fx23** » 16 Mar 2010, 00:13

yup, still at work

but going home now,

will post you my osc files in less than 1hour

23fx23 · Unread post by **23fx23** » 16 Mar 2010, 01:03

ok here are my latest osc files that fixes the int/float Pb, especially for volume, try and report me if it works. (use osc send float)
http://www.sensomusic.com/forums/upload ... l%2002.rar

loveandelectrik wrote:got clip names working,, updating fine,, i suppose you have to send an extra msg when /live/clip/info returns value #0 on data #3 to have it clear the caption name? trying to wrap my brain around this

that's a posibility, ive chosen a different one:
I have a "request pulse", when i press the button it send all asking messages (i delay some to not overload), so for caption, It clears them when i press pulse (a pass if cgh out of the button goes to my usine item caption input so they receive 1,then 0, so they clear, then when osc send back name (receive module set "on change"), names update.

loveandelectrik wrote:also in your setup you say you have 4x4 grid with navigation?
just wondering if thats possible or if you meant something else by navigation,,
thats pretty amazing if you are scrolling up down left right with your 4x4 clip grid!

yes! by navigation i mean i can scroll left and right for unlimited nb of tracks in X, or/and up and down for unlimited nb of scenes in Y. that's possible because I request a grid of colors and names in relation to my XY scroll position.
so 4x4 is small but it's relative

. Im just wondering myself if i let it like that, or a 6x5 or 8x4 , see 8x8 (with still scroll), that would be less responsive...actually it's relatively fast enough, but im afraid asking 2x or 4x more infos could be slow, that's why for testing i started with a 4x4...what do you think about that, better a fast 4x4, or might be slower 8x4 or 8x8.
mmm maybe 6x5 is a good compromise ... scroll is cool we can scroll 6x track at once so it can be fast to reach any track...

loveandelectrik · Unread post by **loveandelectrik** » 16 Mar 2010, 01:22

thanks so much for this! so happy,, i got track names, clip position and lengh, level meters for 1-8 + master, clip names and some more...
gotta figure out the magic behind the colors, do the colors you get mirror the same in ableton? mine are all different, some the same, some black ect

stoked we can navigate with clip browsers, be a while before i figure that out but something im going to need..

for me 4x4 grid is enough,, would be cool to be 8x2 aswell (8 tracks 2 scenes)
thats what i think i will do in mine,
if the delay is not to long 8x8 would be awesome but 8x,4 or 8x5 is probably max i would need at one point in time (personally)

cant wait to see what you cook up!

23fx23 · Unread post by **23fx23** » 16 Mar 2010, 01:42

you re welcome
im sorry I just saw your message i missed where you were asking my patch, im sorry for severals reasons i prefer not to share it for now , but make it clean as an addon asap, but no worry i will try to help you on any wonder you have i can answer for you to make your own personal grid.

I think it's better we all try with differents setup to discover cool/differents techniques, it will makes things more evolving, and you could find better ways than those i thinked of

colors:

i took me a while to elucidate the pb, then saw a red clip was blue, a blue was red, and a green still green, so eureka it's just
an R and B inversion (why????) in fact to memake ableton colors the same we need to reroute R to B, and also add a bit of brightness.

to do this there is the wonderful RGB color module by matin that receive the color in, then on int's out rewire R to the B input of a second RGB module, B to R, G to G, the second module now outpus same color as live.
(ps: if any master has a sugestion to make this math operation a different way on an array im after that, how did you martin/senso convert a color to RGB, i catch the other way, not figuring in that way?)

if then you are a perfectionist, and want to add the tiny missing lum , add and HSL color , pick the prevous color in, add a second HSL, route H to H, S to S, L to L. add a new fader going also to L, set it -1...1.
then with the fader you can adjust the lum, you'll be trippin then

make blinks, swich of a clip ect....

loveandelectrik · Unread post by **loveandelectrik** » 16 Mar 2010, 08:43

so awesome! no worries i hear what you mean,, although mine's going to be a frankenstein controller compared to your badass lol... its coming along,, im going to worry about colors last though glad to know i can sort it out,, want to get all the functionality parts working first then worry bout finer details,, still trying to get these faders sending osc messages argh,,,
do i need more than one osc send to send a simple track volume message? ie one set to float, one set to integer?
doesnt seem to pick up in ableton,,, see the data going out usines osc activity led,, if i switch channel to 9001, i can see it coming back in trace message ect,, nothing moving,,
thanks so much for these modded osc files though! will keep trying

loveandelectrik · Unread post by **loveandelectrik** » 16 Mar 2010, 11:38

ps sorry for all the stoopid questions guys,, in the last couple weeks ive taken on learning usine and then now learning osc,,
ill try not to hijack this thread too much,,
i figured out i was having a problem sending data to ableton because i was using send modules with 4 data's by default,,
didnt realize that you have to pick 1 data for tempo ect for it to work,, assumed that with 4 data modules i could send fader to data 1 and would work same

23fx23 · Unread post by **23fx23** » 16 Mar 2010, 14:34

no worries, yes on receveiving you can put a Ndatareceive, but on sending you need to put the correct module so that the script performs correct operation. so for volume working it shoud be a 2 data (float) osc send.

loveandelectrik · Unread post by **loveandelectrik** » 17 Mar 2010, 07:27

any luck with track sends?

i got it coming back,, cant get it going out to live,,, using 4 data send,, sending value to data 3,, nothing,, wondering if you got it going and if any things to overcome?

23fx23 · Unread post by **23fx23** » 17 Mar 2010, 17:39

yes that's because the script is awaiting a 3 data lengh, not 4. so either we need to modify the script so that it receive 4 data, ignoring 4rd,
but it's a bit complex, cause in some cases the script can perform differents operations if receiving 2,3or4,5 data at same adress.

ideally we woud need a 3 data osc send, i spoke about that with senso, next version should allow that, great!, just have to be patient

.
http://www.sensomusic.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=2001

loveandelectrik · Unread post by **loveandelectrik** » 18 Mar 2010, 04:34

ahh ok,,

cant wait,, but theres so much else i can do in the app so no prob,, lots to figure out and by the time i get there im sure the update will be here,
thanks for all your help!

loveandelectrik · Unread post by **loveandelectrik** » 20 Mar 2010, 02:05

found a little discovery that might help with the occasional black clip,,
u might already have notived this but if not might help in investigating whats going on,,

if you get a black clip, osc sends no color code,, changing the name seems to help,, ill get a black clip and move it around,, black everywhere,, changing colors doesnt send code,, the second i change the name to somethignwith a digit before the letter,, ie 1name instead of name,, color comes back,,
thought the black clips where frozen as black, changing the name brings back color for some reason

fyi,, ive taken a break on the bi-directional faders,, i think i got it smooth enough to move on for now, now working on rebuilding everything cleaner,, was getting way to messy

in my v2 im doing my mixer to have a 1-8, 9-16 switch,, also trying to work out the clip launch section,,
will have some more questions but will try to figure out as much as i can on my own,,
have the mixer working with bank switch but trying to figure out how to make the faders 9-17 not change 1-8 when i switch over, like a pause or null and update when switching,, puzzling but learning so much

thanks for all your help any other valuble advice you have to offer would be so appreciated.... again, lol
ez

23fx23 · Unread post by **23fx23** » 20 Mar 2010, 08:00

cool!

well i had doubt relating colors "black", nice investigation. i got this with captions also..

Between, now i use the "color block" fonction, i re added to live osc from another lemur osc file, it should be in the last file i will
reupload, or maybe i had done it in the previous you have, so maybe give a try:
very powerfull, you can ask for a grid of colors, ie from track1to 8, clips 1 to 4. then osc32 receives 32 independant colors, and no blacks yet

use an osc send 4,integer

/live/name/clipcolorblock

data0: track start
data1: clip start
data3: nb of tracks
data4: nb of clips.

ie sending 0-1-8-4 will return on osc32 the 32 colors of clips from 1to4,on track 0-8.!!!! easy, modulable! and scroll!
cool also is that it returns blacks,but well corresponding to when there are no clips.

ive hardly managed once to create a "clipinfo block" as well, returning 32 status:
0:no clip 1: clip 2:clipisplaying 3:clipis triggered. but now i messed it arf..

i also temp stoped searching full be directionnal, i ask to update on startup or with a button when needed,
waiting to see when it's really needed.

good idea for tabing 8x once, came to same system. mmm i have to check around but confirms it's possible
(i for now choose to not have a fader per track, but selecting a track brings the fader ,pan, sends,devices, updated, so it should work with 8 but im afraid wanting all live items for 8 tracks will be not trivial with cpu/data rate.)
have to check that how i got rid of "i well see what you mean"... tricky feedback once more

ive rebuild a 8x8 to test all this night (didn't slept), woa that's beautiful, a bit slower,,,,but as less need to scroll/can scroll8x, it's ok. i was affraid,but no, once more usine can do the job!,
now hesitate on the 1/8 faderquestion, we always want more,but my screen is too small!! and old 1024pixels, but need to calm down, cpu is slowly but surely increasing from 4x4 to 8x8, it's not 2x more operation but 4x hehe .. im a bit high now around 10-20 percent,still having this in front of me is kind magical, ableton ultimate controller i was far to think i could get so "relatively easy" with usine, once more big up to senso for the huge work on OSC.
now wait the next matrix release

so what is your system finally? a 8x2 with 8 fader, do you use one osc per fader or what else im curious...

23fx23 · Unread post by **23fx23** » 20 Mar 2010, 10:07

i couldn't resit put a little messy screenshot of my pre-alpha 1:

live0sc pre-alha

nay-seven · Unread post by **nay-seven** » 20 Mar 2010, 10:18

crazy boy !
i feel we gone to see some ableton users here soon..

23fx23 · Unread post by **23fx23** » 20 Mar 2010, 10:26

yeah, that's what bother me in a way, i sometimes think i would prefer we stay in our village

nay-seven · Unread post by **nay-seven** » 20 Mar 2010, 10:47

no, don't bother you with this kind of ideas, Usine village has precisely less frontiers than others ...

ethnix73 · Unread post by **ethnix73** » 20 Mar 2010, 11:19

Impressive 23fx23!

gurulogic · Unread post by **gurulogic** » 20 Mar 2010, 13:16

.......!

loveandelectrik · Unread post by **loveandelectrik** » 20 Mar 2010, 21:45

amazing!! wow man!!,, thanks again for the advice,, exactly what i needed to know,, ill share some pics of mine but there no where as complicated and well integrated as yours,, mines a basic mixer with volume, rec enable, solo, mutes, fx master crossfader and clip grid,, ,, working on adding the clip grid,, will share some pics in a bit once i clean it up,,,
cheers!

loveandelectrik · Unread post by **loveandelectrik** » 20 Mar 2010, 21:50

ps i probably discovered usine about what 3-4 weeks ago when i started asking you questions lol,, havent been sleeping good since,, i think my girlfriend is bored and projects are piling up.. lol,, always one last thing to finish,, then rebuild,, then make it look nice,, then figure something else out, then rebuild,, arrrgh,,

gurulogic · Unread post by **gurulogic** » 20 Mar 2010, 21:52

23fx23, love your clip names btw..

gurulogic · Unread post by **gurulogic** » 20 Mar 2010, 21:54

loveandelectrik,
oh yes I fully understand the disease of almost finally having something working pefect and then discovering that there's a 1000% better way to do it and starting all over..! :rolleyes:

loveandelectrik · Unread post by **loveandelectrik** » 20 Mar 2010, 22:09

quick question,, in your setup do pans and send levels act strangely?

my pans and sends are sending data and can see it going to osc send,, ableton only listens for the 0 or 1 making the volume either 0 or 100% -1 or 1 for pans,, same behaviour,, wonder if this is same on your setup,,

tested the /clipcolorblock/ and it works! still had some clips not send data when certain digits in name,, changing name to either not have digit or adding digit made them work,, maybe your new osc files fixed it for you?

this is so awesome though to see this scrolling in action,, i think i want to rebuild mine and make image panels instead of buttons,, for those clips set to "repeat mode" could be fun for stutter effects, when holding down clip ect,,

23fx23 · Unread post by **23fx23** » 20 Mar 2010, 22:55

loveandelectrik wrote:ps i probably discovered usine about what 3-4 weeks ago when i started asking you questions lol,, havent been sleeping good since,, i think my girlfriend is bored and projects are piling up.. lol,, always one last thing to finish,, then rebuild,, then make it look nice,, then figure something else out, then rebuild,, arrrgh,,

hehe i got those sleeping/girlfriend problems as well.
all destruct to all better reconstruct...often worth it.

for vol, pan, send, be sure to send floats, have uploaded my latest osc files i replaced the int/float thing in the script.
yes vol an pans are ok here . (but sends need an osc 3 to work). my volume setup look like this for now, sending floats.
feedback is not perfect but working.

there are some strange things with live/ live osc i can't figure yet, first i had captions block not working, then working but no color block, now re colorblock seems ok but not captionblock, got it working with manual request of single clips names using /live/clip/name
are you using /live/name/clipblock or live/name/clip?, does it work ok for you?
image panels are quite modular. for now ive taken panels "old style" but image panels have more options, like xy that could be use to control some fx..
ok i upload the latest, but keep a backup of your osc files just in case, i may have change things that could mess your setup...
basically i reordered the color block so that it returns clips color in "per track" order, instedad of "per line", more conveniant i think (when later dealing with colors ie to highlight a track, the array is better track indexed)and I got back my new "clip info block working now!!! so ask same as colorblock but on /live/name/clipinfoblock.
0: no clip 1: clip 2: clip playing 3:clip triggered. don't remember if there was clip position in prev version, now it sends
on /live/clip/position (use some A=B to make data3 pass when track nb is good, same for data4 wich is max value of the fader/lengh of the clip.

my latest osc files are:
here

loveandelectrik · Unread post by **loveandelectrik** » 21 Mar 2010, 04:20

cant thank you enough!,, your picture confirms as i though,, im using way to many modules to do simple things lol,,
i got the clip names was working a minute ago before i saved and reopened lol,, (/live/name/clipblock)
was giving good names and then occasional chinese character or random character in some fields that should be empty,,
weird thing is now instead im seeing random track names, characters, or sometimes 0,1,4,8..mixed in with the names,,
is that what you get or is it not responding?

re: image panels,, exactly what i though,, was thinking of double click as a solo or trigger send a for dub effects ect could be fun!
love how you integrated device control in your setup, thats insane,, i think ill work out the mixer and clip grid before i attempt anything like that

loveandelectrik · Unread post by **loveandelectrik** » 21 Mar 2010, 05:21

get bus!! omg,, that picture just saved me thousands of hours,, so u create get bus module,, then send to bus modules,,
now ill be able to see through all my connections and wires lol

23fx23 · Unread post by **23fx23** » 21 Mar 2010, 08:25

mmm yup i don't know what's wrong with clipblock, sometimes works sometimes not, i let it down for now,
it seems it bypass some cmips sometimes, making mess in indexes, and my names are randomly offseted.
so , i reuse /live/name/clip.

nice idea for the double click function! indeed solo/trigg something is good, i catch you the idea

yup devices is a bit more complex, maybe get the clip matrix/mixer working good first.

aaahh buses yes busses are very cooool, very powerfull it's like wifi hehe. yeah it higly clean the room, just need to be organized, cause sometimes end up saying: but where is that "send bus in my big city patch..?

im implementing slowly (i don't know a word of python, so long testing

) some other "blocks" like mutes, arm ect to request all, scroll in an easier way....

23fx23 · Unread post by **23fx23** » 21 Mar 2010, 19:55

mmmm, it seems lemur has highly focused on getting that, i reckon it's quite impressive:
especially the "resize grid" feature (but once martin provide us the nex matrix we' ll do the same

)

http://www.jazzmutant.com

...stil need t spend 2k$ is insane, and lemur is locked, and need max4live. our solutions are muchcheaper and modular.

but interesting is that it seems they ve chosen a different strategy, instead of asking for "blocks" anytime we scroll, they seem to ask all infos of
the liveset once, so no need to reask infos and then perform with quasi no latency picking up inside the "local"array.
this could be done the same in usine, just the caption thing is trycky, on a 16x100 liveset would need to queue 1600 captions array one after the other and re-extract, resulting array must be huge and im affraid about cpu, any ideas any masters?

damned once more good to rebuild all arf, or maybe will let that for a futur version..

loveandelectrik · Unread post by **loveandelectrik** » 22 Mar 2010, 04:57

does your color block receive only starting from scene 2 by any chance?

loveandelectrik · Unread post by **loveandelectrik** » 22 Mar 2010, 05:04

sorry nevermind,, 0,0,8,4 magic numbers,, i sound like hurley from lost right now counting numbers out loud!

loveandelectrik · Unread post by **loveandelectrik** » 23 Mar 2010, 01:37

another observation ive made with clipcolorblock and many other things that was messin with me is that if you try to talk to a channel that doesnt exist, ie have 8x8 clip grid and ableton only has 2 tracks, clipcolor block will change to array of 2 instead of 32/64 and make usine osc not respond untill reset,, i was struggling to figure out what broke my colorblock and that was it,

23fx23 · Unread post by **23fx23** » 23 Mar 2010, 02:26

yup totally right sorry i might have forget to mention that. yup in fact if requesting a bloc of "n" tracks, ableton needs to have at least "n"tracks,
meaning have to be also right when scrollingX.(ie if 8track inlive and 8grid, no scroll allowed, if 9tracks, can scroll of 1, ect..) there is a message that returns nb of tracks from live, (if i well remeber /live/track ) and i use it to lock max Xscroll to that value. (but still i make atleast 8 tracks for a 8 grid, because if lower returning indexes are changing and it's a bit complicate to handle via classic patching (still possible as i reordered the arrays, but don't bother on that for now, that's a bit more complex), would need script that correct indexes, but's that also will be for later, and maybe next matrix module will solve many pb about that, ie scalling automatically to live nb of tracks if my reflexion are not wrong!!.) . so for now workaround is creating some empty midi tracks if necessary..

also ive just checked i had make some mess with the script, and the float thing on pans and other was lost, i suppose in the version you have too. now it seems ok, but i ll wait a bit to check that all and will provide you a new version with more blocs (mute/solo/arm/pans/sends/volume/trackcrossfader/devices/ should now have same kind of "blocs" request fonctions, still some little bugz to fix, but will post as soon as i find it's good working, let me a bit amount of time for that...

loveandelectrik · Unread post by **loveandelectrik** » 23 Mar 2010, 08:48

awesome! yah,, being fairly new at this i think i should have waited to learn more before attempting to make mine scroll,,
ive got one thats 4x8, clips are updating, scrolls only between scene 1-4 and 4-8, tracks 1x8

i used a button to update that sends ramp lfo data to osc send triggering requests through 0-7 and am sorting the data on the way back through a=b modules alowing data to pass to corresponding, led, clip name ect,
it works great for some things like clip names, scene names, but information gets jumbled in some places ie my clip status will stop if i trigger a clip on another track because the information of that channel comes back and stops the data flow of the one playing before ect,, pretty sure i had this working before messing around with colors and names,

wondering if im doing this correctly or some backwards convoluted way that can be easily simplified for sorting the data on the way back in when dealing with this sort of thing?

thanks again for all your help really stoked on what i made with your help!

pouranat · Unread post by **pouranat** » 24 Mar 2010, 17:26

hi 23fx23

your project is really impressive !!

it will be a "must have " for all ableton users

could you please give us the list of the aspects that you could control with it

( en francais ca donne : pourrais tu nous faire la liste de toutes les choses que l on pourra controller
dans live !!
en tout cas ca a l air vraiment bien : pas de mapping , plug and play ... l effet apc 40 est bien la ...
j ai l impression que ton projet se rapproche de mu de jazzmutant et leur lemur )

thanks

23fx23 · Unread post by **23fx23** » 25 Mar 2010, 02:47

hi pouranat thanks, so yup a lit summup of "should be in when finished this should be features avaible for V1.0:

_total osc control, no midi mapping.
_gobal Play/Stop
_Tempo
_Quantize
_8x8 clip grid with XY unlimited scroll.
_clips colors, clip caption (caption not constantly cause it make lags, when scroll is ok, press a "text button" and caption update.
_clips status reflected by blinks (clip playing is surrounded and blink.
_Clip position: a Fader reflect per track clip loop lenght and actual position.
_8X tracks fader (in fact controllled by a step so can easy control several fader at once) With Vumeters in Background.(very cool)
_8x pan same step control.
_for now 16x sends (A-B) per track
_8x Mutes ith two mode: normal "toggle" and momentary dj cut style: press it mutes, as soon as mouse release uncuts.
_ 8x solo same features
_8x Arm same features
_8x crossfader assign A-B-none.
_Track selection: clic a track and this can then display
_track devices: names, values updates, all track devices accessible via a combo box. (still ome work on this)
_Master devices
_Master colume contol, vu meter and clipping led.
_Clip loop lengh display/control. ie change a clip from 1bar to 1/16 ect.

just to warn it will be a little laging when scrolling, like jazzmutant cliplauncher as it request all infos each scroll,
but on 8x8 no need to scroll that much, and possibility to sroll 4x, 8x once, so fast enough imo.

what should be later in V2, more "mu" like:

_same as mu a "performance " mode, préloading first all liveset infos to scroll faster.
_same as mu a scalable grid being matrix powered.
_ certainly a rec/loop sync any action made on the interface.
_ much more...

little teasing image of the "vumeteres faders can be several at once set, pans, sends and devices, track controls:

rich people can buy live+max4live+lemur+mu= $$$$$ (2000-3000?)
V2 should be nearly same, virually working on any touch screen still usable for other things and usine, for about 10x cheaper.
here im running v0.9 with a wiimote and a simple ir led keychain, so my total cost is around 100 euros. (usine+wiimote+irled),
that's quite cheap for a "modular" colors and text APC

, monotouch for now, but i think we can expect 5-10 touch in less than 6 month for about 300-500 euros, or actually get a dualtouch for 200 euros.....

pouranat · Unread post by **pouranat** » 25 Mar 2010, 15:44

really a good job !!

i can t wait for it !!

gurulogic · Unread post by **gurulogic** » 29 Mar 2010, 11:17

hey 23fx23,
have you had any luck getting OSC to work between Live and Usine VST? Hopefully this isn't impossible?

23fx23 · Unread post by **23fx23** » 29 Mar 2010, 11:27

i didn't really tried yet, for now im still fighting for liveOsc to send good values and scripting returns in usine to reduce cpu...
will test that and report.

loveandelectrik · Unread post by **loveandelectrik** » 14 Apr 2010, 09:08

hows things going with your patch 23fx23? wondering if you got anywhere with sends or pans ect

also bumping this because this thread rocks and im suprized not many more people are dying of anticipation to try this out

soundmind · Unread post by **soundmind** » 14 Apr 2010, 10:34

yes this is definitely an awesome project. many thanks to master 23fx23 for your efforts.

pouranat · Unread post by **pouranat** » 22 Apr 2010, 21:30

some news for the project ?
do u know approximatively when it should be out ?

23fx23 · Unread post by **23fx23** » 23 Apr 2010, 01:00

hi mates, thanks for support. oops sorry loveelectrik i once more missed your post..
I went a bit late cause I started to script many parts of the patch, and While it's generally very benefic for cpu/clearness,
I sometimes still spend hours where i can patch it in few minutes lol, but it's coming up.

to let you know the progress:
bad news:
I had to deal with some issues that led me to reconsider the osc files and my patch, for example
im still in tests but im not sure i will let liveOsc send all clips loop positions, vu meter constantly cause it can slow down scrolling if using a big liveset, and may occur in dropouts in datas, so im considering another system requesting live time every 5s to make a local clock that would auto readjust, still need some tests on that, seems the lemur guys also removed this to get their cliplaucher working speed descent.
good news:
The big issue I was facing was names drops globally, especially with devices but I tweaked the osc and managed to get now a clear and stable comma list of all devices, instead of Xnames, and clips so that's very cool. So now the main XY scroll of clips with colors start to be rocking ok and captions are semi automatic, ie request a8x8 bloc, scroll in local to be speed, when feel need back the missing names due to scroll, press a ask button to reupdate them. Not 100 percent on top as i could reask only missing names whereas i request back all new bloc, but ill study the question later, that's working not bad like that.

One another good tryppy thing I worked on is a nice setup for pans and sends with arrays like the lemur ones, with even more options. i hopeyou'll like it, i do a lot! ie there is a min/max mode to tweak live without loosing the pre-datas.

also made 8x CombosSwich-colorFader that can act booth on volume and mutes im quite happy of the system, (if 0 it mutes, if 1unmutes, all in between and only act on volume, with 3 modes: normal, momentary, djcut) had to remake the sytem array based to get lower cpu, spend a bit of time cause it was hard to scroll, avoid feedback ect, but know it's ok and quite pleasant to use, a precision fader letting us to performs mico-precision volume setting as well as fast hard cuts.

I just finished the main device part wich let us easy pick a track, then a device to get all it's parameter and names, the list spreading on some panels to get constant access to 10 devices per track, with a pageup/down if have more devices, based
on a remix of woodslanding combobox in IML edition.

now I just want to add 8x permanent Encoders (scroll independant) and making a system so we can assign whatever parameter to each of them. my first test seems very promising. I just have to focus on staying simple for now.

then i will force myself to stop, make the thing stable and low cpu, and I hope posting a beta version maybe at the end of next week, hopefully im in holidays, just need to spend a bit amount of time with my girlfriend, but you know what i ll do when she ll go sleeping or working

. i promise im 100 percent on it to make the beta avaible asap, but still a bit of work..

a little pic of latest v0.970:

pouranat · Unread post by **pouranat** » 23 Apr 2010, 19:18

thx i looks like very cool !!

now there are many projects which are trying to put great touch interface : your seems great !

just for infos : a man do a nice job with touch osc and a python script for iphone / ipad :

i think it could be interesting for you to give some ideas : http://livecontrol.q3f.org/livecontrol/

23fx23 · Unread post by **23fx23** » 23 Apr 2010, 19:34

yup Ive seen it already, not sure but i think it's ST8, the guy who deliver live0sc for live 8. im impressed by the way it can controls directly midi clips, that's a feature i couldn't get for now.. I will try to contact him later about that.
for me it's project can really rock for ipad/pod/phone owners, ther is lot of chance for it to be best ableton controller running on Ipad in few month, im 100percent convinced, touchOSc had a great success, it's very powerfull for a ridiculous price..
but now tasted usine power, have to wait that ;,;;,!@{#;,'--'-" descent never coming true multitouch monitor..

23fx23 · Unread post by **23fx23** » 04 May 2010, 05:48

just to let know the progress to some may be interested , im a bit late on my schedule,:rolleyes:
i faced lot's of challenges with getting liveOsc send captions in a stable way, correctly ask them, allow scroll ect.
once i quasi all finished
ive been once more victim of " it's 99percent finished but i found a better way of doing all" syndrom.

to summup i was first asking lot's of 64blocs or 8blocs of data each time scrolling to reupdate (colors,captions,status ect),
this lead to usable but slow scrolling.
now thanks to bsork and senso example/advices i managed to script
something that insert every incoming data, either single or bloc from live osc in a bigger memory grid, so can scroll locally,
and if scrolling it tracks only missing infos (ie the column that enter on screen when scrolling X) and automatically send osc requests to reupdate memory . It's about 7x less infos to ask and scrolling is now amazingly fast, as i would never have espected!!!:):):)
now need a bit more time to reapply the technique on several parts, but think really worth it..

@love&electric: sorry i once more forgot i didn't post you updated osc for sends and pans float thing!

note if sending float for sends,pans you have to force osc emited range to fit or live will react stangly.
so use OSC f,f,f (3float) for Sends (float track,floatSendId,Float Value) , 2floats for pans (float track, float value), same for volume.

here is what I added as new blocs for easier scrolling, updating lot of data, and moded if float, generally moded as felt
would be cool in use with usine to build custom grids:

/live/name/clipinfoblocck (i,i,i,i) (start track, start clip, lenX, lenY) returns Clips status (0,1,2,3 noclip,clip,playing,triggered) bloc.
/live/name/trackcolorblocK (i,i,i,i) (start track,start clip,lenX,lenY) returns colors of first clip of tracks. (track color aren't working so
i use first clip color as track color as a workaround
/live/send/sendblock (i,i,i,i)(start track,start send,lenX,lenY) returns sends values. (can now send float OSC 0 to 1 to /send)
/live/pan/panblock (i,i) (start track,lenX) returns pans values. (can now send float OSC range -1 to 1 to /pan)
/live/arm/armblock (i,i) (start track,lenX) returns arm values.
/live/volume/volumeblock (i,i) (start track,lenX) returns volume values.(can send float OSC 0-1 0db around 0,85 /volume)
/live/track/crossblock (i,i) (start track,lenX) returns crossfaders assign values.
/live/solo/soloblock (i,i) (start track,lenX) returns solo assign values.
/live/mute/muteblock (i,i) (start track,lenX) returns mutes assign values
/live/device/paramnameblock (i,i)(track,device) returns names of decice i on track i parameters.
/live/device/paramblock (i,i)(track,device) returns values of device i on track i parameters.

also moded live/device/list so that it sends a commatext, but need a formating in usine so will be in the later patch.

here is the latest file i use with those new blocs, but note i removed vumeters and clipplaying position for now as i felt it was leading to some dropouts, maybe will reinject after more tests as i highly reduced needed data, but boring is that in anycase
every clip playing will constantly send those infos, so if ie more than 25 clips are playing together im quite sure it leads to
high reducing of bandwith... searching if could force liveosc to send only a visible bloc as well, but not sure it's possible, so
by waiting removed them, also to have a clean overview of what's hapening in usine console.
liveOsc4usineV105
http://sensomusic.com/forums/uploads.ph ... Osc105.rar

edit: just thought i just moved to W7 64bits (and fresh new corei7 4gb yeah!), so i had to install python64 and change the OSC.py file to get it working back, hopefully this works like a charm on 64bits as well as latest live 8.1.3.
but if you are on 32 bit system, replace all files by new ones exept keep your actual osc.py file, do not replace it so you
still don't need python at all.

pouranat · Unread post by **pouranat** » 04 May 2010, 18:28

nice work ! should we have usine pro to use it or not ?

23fx23 · Unread post by **23fx23** » 04 May 2010, 19:18

if you speak about oscfiles, no, you can build your own version right now with usinefree;
if speak about the patch,..
well it's a dilemna i got.

I may have to discuss about that with senso as normally only pro users can dl add-ons, but i probably can provide a usinefree version, olivier was ok with that when we spoke about it..
Feel that as i use lots of subpatchs, users that will want to tweak their own version will certainly soon feel it worth getting usine pro, while it could be a way to make discover usine to some ableton users that wouldn't pay only for the patch and can get an instant working ableton free complete osc template, a nice way to discover a fraction of usine power already insane... on the other side i really dlike to thanks senso for his work, so i would also enjoy bring some ableton users potentially buy a usine license to touch ableton for a fraction of a lemur cost (now i know what usine can do, and the patch, I personally consider the price really really worth it, but some may not take time to test usine).. A third compromise solution is making 2versions, one free a bit limited (ie no or limited X scroll, ), one pro with all features..

im more on either provide it totally free full functional, or make two versions...
im curious what globally usine users think about that, (certainly different for pro/free users hehe), but if any have
opinion, feel free to share. I'ts not to say im getting pretentious, but as i really spent hard nights on debug/patch/script/tweak liveosc to get now (imo)a really powerfull ableton, and seing some sells templates for apc or other, i also considers just asking donation
if user feels it, not obliged at all to donate of course, well never know...

so now why don't you have usine pro yet pouranat? weren't you blasted out by usine power?;)

gurulogic · Unread post by **gurulogic** » 04 May 2010, 20:55

I think it would be good to get some ableton users on board by sharing the patch freely...I'm sure there would be some who as a result would want to know more about Usine or would tell others about Usine.
And then there is also the issue of no (or very few) proper multi touch displays yet, a bit of a setback for making full use of this project I would think?

23fx23 · Unread post by **23fx23** » 04 May 2010, 21:21

yup that what i think too, better make people be aware of usine, once opening it let's usine magical operate. it's certainly best choice. so if senso is ok gonna make free full functional patch avaible as dl. thanks for opinion.

also true about multitouch. actually the patch is only partially multitouch, can normally tweak a pot while triggering a clip, but clip trigger is not multitouch in itself yet cause i don't have hardware to test/build. so maybe a free full partially multitouch actual version dl, and later see the question of multitouch version as add/on/free?..
so... back to work!

loveandelectrik · Unread post by **loveandelectrik** » 05 May 2010, 03:29

woot x100 thanks again 23fx23! its xmas all over again,,

here's my current build,, been using for the last few shows and working alright,,, some bugs to work out with names and playback status,
basically more of a mixer with 2x8 scrollable clip grid (just up and down for now)
colors work great,, names mess up, not to much delay though after scrolling,, combination of osc / mackie control and custom user script for ableton control,,, now with this new osc file i can rebuild without the script but might keep the mackie emulation for all the handy function buttons,, ie browser, clip/track view switch ect...

here it is,,,,ill probbaly leave it here and try to start something new with these new osc files, if anybody fixes my clip names feel free to send back to me

or point me in the right direction,,

again,, thanks so much 23fx23,, gonna blog this and share with the ableton community,, hope to bring some people here

http://www.sensomusic.com/forums/upload ... roller.rar

23fx23 · Unread post by **23fx23** » 05 May 2010, 15:48

Very Nice LoveandElectric, Well done! you went fast for a new usiner!! I like your faders and pots!
so you managed to combine osc and mackie control? how by putting the two actives un live, that works?
it interests me cause mackie control can be lighter for few things...
well done man!

loveandelectrik · Unread post by **loveandelectrik** » 06 May 2010, 05:21

thanks man! apreciate all the help you've given!.,
im using mackie control through use of midi out modules and midi yoke,, never had to do anything to enable it to work, just pick mackie control from ableton midi setup and send the right notes, pitch bend channel 1-9 for vol 1-8 and master ect,,i think there are subpatches for mackie functions that could probably be reused in anybody's project,
i found the faders and knobs on synth edit forum,, was trying to find the post so i could credit the artist,, ill go through my history and post the thread here,, found lots of neat templates for knobman

23fx23 · Unread post by **23fx23** » 27 May 2010, 04:51

a brief update on way thingz are going.

I think i at last find it ok for a beta 1.0, solved all bugz i had (crashs due to some poor scripting, seems now fixed)
added 16x combos swichs/encoderz that can pick any device parameter of any track and can save 16 banks. it auto ask
updates when changing banks. this part was the last and more tricky to get, now working fine. really happy can have quick access
to 128 parameters of our choice with auto min/max adjust, name and value+ per track devices.

after several layout tests i went for having max things always under see/control, but there are also extra menus with visibility.
what do you think of latest layout: Usine APC:

i clean a bit more the room but should be avaible very shortly for beta test

23fx23 · Unread post by **23fx23** » 28 May 2010, 03:52

..and a litlle horrible first vid of features, will make a better one for release:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fIG0mpVEOE

gurulogic · Unread post by **gurulogic** » 28 May 2010, 07:29

looking good! Sadly I probably won't have much time to test now except maybe a couple of days next mid week. (other life is so cutting into my Usine / music time lately!

)

23fx23 · Unread post by **23fx23** » 28 May 2010, 15:36

hehe no pb gurulogic, same here have to go back to work

semuta · Unread post by **semuta** » 28 May 2010, 19:43

Hello everyone. I have LiveOSC up and running in Ableton (I'm a long time user), but right now I'm unable to download Usine Free...

Any thoughts anyone? The Sensomusic website seems to have some kind of issue.

nay-seven · Unread post by **nay-seven** » 28 May 2010, 20:10

no problem right now...?
can you retry ..?
if you still have problem tell us..

23fx23 · Unread post by **23fx23** » 30 May 2010, 20:51

Ive posted the first version as addon if any beta testers?
should be accessible soon for nonPro if no major failures.

loveandelectrik · Unread post by **loveandelectrik** » 31 May 2010, 04:20

cant wait!! congrats on the release,, cant beta test yet (non pro)
any chance i can get my hands on it?

no worries if not ill wait patiently

23fx23 · Unread post by **23fx23** » 31 May 2010, 17:18

Yes I tweak a bit more ( I found a way to ask only Vu meters, Positions that the interface need, not all running track, thanks to ST8)
In fact ST8 made a system based on a device we put on master Track and choose with pots if Sending or not clips positions/vumeters. I adapted the system so i can use a pot as a starting track and lengthX, wich are controlled by the interface
(ie see Vu 0to7 only, if scrolling 1to8 ect) that avoid useless transmit if lot of track, only visible tracks emit. very cool
seems for 8 track it doesn't make scroll suffer that much.

I will post a link tonight so nonpro can dl as well here.

loveandelectrik · Unread post by **loveandelectrik** » 31 May 2010, 22:57

dope! cant wait,, you must have known its my bday haha!

does your ableton gui suffer or slow down when using osc?
for me the meter on ableton and screen response time slows down a lot,, doesnt affect usine or sound,, but graphics slow right down when liveosc105 is loaded,, dont remember this happening with the older version of liveosc i was using,,

talk soon cant wait to this out,, video looks crazy cool!!!

23fx23 · Unread post by **23fx23** » 31 May 2010, 23:06

i just post it now

23fx23 · Unread post by **23fx23** » 31 May 2010, 23:12

Happy birthday loveAnd Electric!. can now download it here with latest optimized vu meters:

http://www.sensomusic.com/forums/upload ... 0V1.01.rar

please report how it goes!

slow gui: Yup it varies but seems too slow down abe gui..I think ive read on other forums this is normal, but ill try with clean versions provided by st8 to check if it comes from my tweaks..

EDIT: Deleted reuploaded 1.02 fixes scenes bug

http://sensomusic.com/forums/uploads.ph ... 0V1.02.rar

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