Problems with endless midi encoder

[piert]

Hi all,

Just trying to map a midi controller, works wonderful until I try to use an endless encoder. This encoder sends a control message on channel 50, clockwise a 1, and counter clockwise 127. I set the mode to relative. In principle it works. The fader or knob moves (opposite direction as one would expect, but with the reverse option this is no problem). However, the steps the fader/knob makes are huge, with only one in between value, the fader/knob goes from minimal to maximal value (so I can select the minimum, the inbetween and the maximal value, nothing else). I hoped that the 'mapping' feature at the bottom of the remote settings window would allow me to fix this, but it seems to have nothing to do with it.

I tried different control values (using Midi-OX) but did not get better results. The problem also acts up in an empty workspace (if I try to map the rack volume fader).

Am I doing something wrong or is this a bug?

Ciao ciao

[senso]

What is your controller?
Actually Usine can't handle this kind of endless encoder messages.
We'll make an update for that.

[grego mondo]

Hello, I remeber Arturia controllers have 2 relative modes for endless controllerrs :
one is 1-127 and the other 63-65 (or 64 can't remember or test just now).
the second one worked for me.

[piert]

Hi,
I tried what Grego said, and that worked. So apparently in relative mode, everything is relative to 64. So if a controller sends 65 it will move the fader up by a tiny amount (proportional to 65-64=1) and for 68 it will move the fader up by four times this amount (68-64=4). And similar for values lower than 64. I am now using the values 61 and 67 for lower respectively higher, and it works fine. Thanks.

@Senso, for now I use the Hercules DJ Control MP3 e2 (which sends a controlvalue 1 if clockwise, and control value 127 if counterclockwise), cheap and crap, but probably will be making my own midi controller with an arduino. I have not picked the parts yet.

Though it works this way, an update would be nice, so that you do not need to manually map the midi values. If you plan on increasing support for endless encoders, please also consider an acceleration/non-linear option. For example Traktor has this. It means that if you turn the knob faster, and the knob sends relatively more midi messages, that the velocity of the fader does not increase proportional to the velocity of the midi messages, but instead faster, perhaps quadratic. (Perhaps this could be combined with the mapping functionality? [not sure how that works, havent been able to use it, cant find how it woks in manual]). Here is a print screen of how Traktor lets you modify encoders to your needs.

TraktorEndlessEncoder.PNG (11.38 KiB) Viewed 39374 times

What I only notice now is that Traktor lets you select the EncMode. There are two option 7Fh/01h and 3Fh/41h, which corresponds to 127/1, respectively 63/65, in ordinary number notation. Adding this EncMode selection box to Usine would be very nice I think.

[Ariajazz]

I'm having the same problem with rotary endless encoders using BEHRINGER X-TOUCH MINI. In HH5 it works very unaccurate, sometimes with big jumps in values, and others with very little movement. This external controller has 3 relative modes to choose from, I do not know exactly what the differences are betwen them, I picked the one that worked "better" but still works flawsely and not smooth at all. It worked so much better in the old USINE v5, more that 10 years ago. A good midi relative mode implementation for endlees rotary encoders would be an important and bewaited improvement to HH5. That TRAKTOR's feature mentioned before by Piert would be nice as well.

[sm_jamieson]

Probably best if knobs have a endless control mode maybe with default control values.
But best to make the UP and DOWN values configurable so they can be any values.
Also, how do endless controllers send a initial value, or do they always start from zero and
send lots of UPs to get to the start value ?

[SylvainT]

Hi,
Generally, an endless encoder will send two values, one for up and one for down. Sometimes more regarding the speed of rotation.
So, it is pretty easy to deal with that to drive a knob in Usine with increment/decrement value.
Maybe Senso will make an update soon to deal directly with that but he is very busy these times.
Sylvain

[Ariajazz]

Probably best if knobs have a endless control mode maybe with default control values.
But best to make the UP and DOWN values configurable so they can be any values.
Also, how do endless controllers send a initial value, or do they always start from zero and
send lots of UPs to get to the start value ?

Most external controllers have this option, you can choose from relative modes or set minimum and maximum values for absolute mode, this way, as SylvainT mentioned, you can adjust the rotation speed. In both ways endless rotary knob sends "negative and positive" values (- and +) from a central value, which is the initial one, in most cases this value is 64. When you turn the encoder clockwise it will send (+) and counterclockwise (-) over the actual value of the fader or knob in HH. HH has an useful feature called SOFT TAKE OVER, which literally does this:

"Soft Take Over if a control is moved on screen and it no longer matches the hardware control, the control will not update until the hardware control matches the onscreen value.

For instance say you have a line fader turned all the way up on the hardware, then you move the onscreen line fader to the bottom. With soft-takeover ON, the onscreen fader will not react to the line fader until you move the line fader all the way down to match the on screen value. The control will then latch on and will be active again."