Laptop advice.

[moody33]

Hi all. I need to buy a laptop between 700 and 1000 euros.

I need it for music , and of course for usine.
Any advice? What do you think about Amilo fujitsu series?
Is Vista is stable for making music?

Thanks for your advices.

[Golcondio]

I'd go for a refurbished MacBook anytime: for 800-900 euros you get a very stable machine, you can install windows XP on it if you so like (well, for running Usine it's a must).
Last weekend I borrowed my girlfriend's Macbook, made a Windows partition with bootcamp, installed Usine and my favorite VSTs, plugged my MoTU Ultralite and started messing around with patches: I frankly admit that I didn't manage to push the system to its limits with my patches (I multi-layer 4 amp simulators with different settings and assign crossfades to exp pedals, plus reverb and a pair of grain-samplers).

I've since decided to take the plunge, and ordered a MacBookPro, refurbished, and 4Gb of RAM from Crucial. My old laptop is still working perfectly, but I found someone to pass it on...

Aside from Macs, I've found the Fujitsu very good in terms of quality/price ratio and reliability (a couple friends of mine own Fujitsu notebooks), just as Toshiba and Asus.

If you want more advice, please state your needs/request in terms of hardware and/or whatever, ok?

[senso]

Just some precisions about the MAC. I have a new (3 month) one at home, and it's a good machine, OSX is fun and easy.

So I've decided to really test the power of my machine (core 2 duo 7400 2.2GHz) and compare it to my other 'old' PC, a 16 month W1 asus (core 2 duo 7200 2 GHz).

My old PC is 2x faster than the MAC... The test was made for DSP real time audio calculation a mean exactly what we need for music...
So I'm not sure MAC is a good option (?)

Take a look on DELL the latest 13' laptop seems to be great but a little more expensive.
Also the P200 Toshiba series 17' are with are very good and a proposed with a very aggressive price.

[Golcondio]

Senso: how did you conduct the test? I'm assuming both machines were running Windows XP with the same settings/drivers/etc... I'd like to test my Toshiba too.

Moody: what screen size do you need? If you want a desktop replacement that you can carry with you, a 17' is very good; if you need portability, you're better off with a 15,4'. If you want it super-portable AND you plan on using a secondary monitor at home, you can go for a 13,3'.

[senso]

The test was made with the same driver (RME fireface):

1) download the pro version 2.52 or 2.501
2) unzip, run and change the setup to your sound card. The ASIO4All isn't good for test because there are a lots of fluctuations. So take your 'normal driver'.
3) play the demo in its basic form. Don't look at the global cpu load in the dashboard, because it's only a system average, not really precise.

4) now take a look into the 'Bassliner' and 'Draw Filter' patches and the cpu load of the patch.
5) you will notice some fluctuations, so you play the workspace and you try to get the minimum value of the patch cpu load during 1 minute.

results

Code: Select all

             
                    bassliner      draw filter
macbook 7400       1.20%           1.20%
macbook pro 7400   1.20%           1.20%
asus W1 7200       0.60%           0.60%

So the macbook-pro isn't faster than the macbook and globally asus is twince faster than the mac.

[Golcondio]

Quite impressive... I don't understand how it's possible, since the hardware inside should be pretty much the same...
I know that, in a single patch with 4 (!) instances of Izotope Trash and a tuner running, I can go as high as 70% CPU on my Toshiba, and went as high as 48% with my girlfriend's macbook; I didn't compare it with an equivalent laptop, therefore the test I did is useless for everyone but me
Tonight I'll do the test on my toshiba and see!

[moody33]

Ok, thanks you for your help.

I was thinking about a Mac, but it's expensive for me, and if Mac is a cpu killer: no thanks!
I really need a good performance laptop. About the screen, I don't really know what I want because of my budget.
So the only thing I want to know is: what are my need in terms of dual proc since my workspaces are often running at 75-80% with an AMD one core 2.2 ( 3.2 Ghz) ? What about the bus frequency? 800 Mhz ?
What manufacturer are not recommended ? HP? Ionevo?Packard Bell?
I also need a sound card...I was thinking about the Onyx Satellite firewire by Mackie ( about 200 euros) .

So, I was thinking about 800- 900 euros for the laptop and 200 euros for the sound card.
My goal is to compose outside my home, and of course, giving performance with it. Sure, I want a stable machine above all....

The Toshiba seems ok, but a bit expansive for me.
About the Dell, I don't know what is the las Dell ! Could you give the reference?


Thanks you a lot for your advices, I'm really scared ! huhuhuu

[moody33]

I think I will buy this one : Fujitsu-Siemens AMILO Pi 2530 - Intel Core 2 Duo T7100 (1.8 Ghz) 2 Go 160 Go 15.4" TFT Graveur DVD(+/-)RW DL Wi-Fi G Webcam WVFP...

For 699 euros ( modèle d'expo )....

[Golcondio]

Well, I just tried my 2 years old Toshiba and got
as low as 0.65% with the bassliner
as low as 0.82% with the draw filter

I'll try and do this with my girlfriend's macbook too...

[moody33]

> Golcondio Vassilevsky tap-guitar? A kind of stick chapman? Have a picture?

[Golcondio]

Since it's has a body, I'd compare it to a Warr Guitar rather than to a Stick, but the principle is the same...
I'm (slowly) building the website for the luthier that built it (Youri Vassilevsky, from Belgium), as soon as it's up I'll link to it!

[Newbie Brad]

I suggest HP dv9543cl, I like mine.

[Golcondio]

The test was made with the same driver (RME fireface):

1) download the pro version 2.52 or 2.501
2) unzip, run and change the setup to your sound card. The ASIO4All isn't good for test because there are a lots of fluctuations. So take your 'normal driver'.
3) play the demo in its basic form. Don't look at the global cpu load in the dashboard, because it's only a system average, not really precise.

4) now take a look into the 'Bassliner' and 'Draw Filter' patches and the cpu load of the patch.
5) you will notice some fluctuations, so you play the workspace and you try to get the minimum value of the patch cpu load during 1 minute.

results

Code: Select all

             
                    bassliner      draw filter
macbook 7400       1.20%           1.20%
macbook pro 7400   1.20%           1.20%
asus W1 7200       0.60%           0.60%

So the macbook-pro isn't faster than the macbook and globally asus is twince faster than the mac.

I've tried and retried with a MacBookPro, and the results are in line with yours; also, my MoTU Ultralite suffers from crackles and random clicks in the audio streams: it seems that under Bootcamp the Firewire bus isn't managed properly and that would explain both the excessive cpu consumption and the fact that I get 16% CPU usage WITH USINE'S ENGINE TURNED OFF (should be 0% or nearly so).
The card doesn't lose sync on a dedicated windows laptop, doesn't lose sync on a MacBookPro under OSX, therefore I think it's an issue with Bootcamp, more than with the Mac itself.

[antwan]

Hi Golcondio,

I've actually been struggling the last couple of days with the issues you mentioned. I got a second hand Ultralite in good condition for a good price, so I thought: that looks like a interface of my choice.
Only AFTER i bought it did I notice how the word was out all over the internet that MOTU is renowned for it's huge compatibility problems with Windows specifically.

Sure Windows has always been a challenge for all pro audio, also true that there are (among other things) firewire problems with XP SP2 etc, and Bootcamp too has problems of it's own...
But the Ultralite does cause a lot of similar headache also on dedicated PC machines.

I've just spent 3 days trying to get the Ultralite to work in any acceptable fashion and MIGHT be getting there. But I need to test it a lot more before I can say I've succeeded. If I do not succeed I might have to get rid of the interface... and probably get an RME because I am starting to believe that's the only rock-solid solution. We'll see. Anyway, you're not alone on that one - if you want to exchange experiences on getting the Ultralite to work, I'll be happy to.

antwan

[moody33]

Hi again!

I'm really thinking about a mac. I definitly hate windows, but I can't imagine me making music without usine.... So my question is: anybody have made the test with the latest macbook , running XP Or Vista under Bootcamp?
You 're talking about firewire problem. Is this problem is solved running Vista under bootcamp?
Please, let me know. Thanks you a lot.

[damstraversaz]

if you're going for use with xp, there is a very nice offer from dell for a 14'( before Wednesday. ( the second with Processeur Intel® Core™ 2 Duo T7250 (2 GHz, FSB 800 MHz, 2 Mo de cache L2) with TVA it's less than 600 euros
and you can still choose XP ( most of laptop are now with vista) I bought it today. the vostro seems very solid
http://www1.euro.dell.com/content/produ ... l=fr&s=bsd

some tests
http://www.notebookcheck.net/Review-Del ... 316.0.html
and french language
http://www.jmax-hardware.com/index.php? ... mitstart=1

[moody33]

Thanks you a lot for your advice damstraversaz. But it doesn't answer to my last question since I'm looking for a Mac...and not for a pc.

I just want to know if usine could work on a mac without cpu penalties! Is the new Mac os works better?

Thanks you.

[antwan]

Hi moody33,

after many gigs since my last posting in this thread, I can confirm I now have a system that works rock-solid. A lot of the problems had to do with Motu Ultralite's poor Windows drivers but some of them are well known Windows-problems which could appear with other sound interfaces as well. I don't know if the firewire problems were fixed in Vista but there are hotfixes for XP. A lot of trouble was caused by interference from the WLAN card. I got far by disabling that.
I have the Santa Rosa MacBookPro with Bootcamp running XP.
From what I've heard "Vista is only now beginning to work as well as XP", for me this means I will continue to stay away from it.
Anyhow, I'd say you're safe to go MacBookPro and XP. Don't know what you're soundcard is but I can give you a whole rundown on fixes if you run into trouble...

Oh, and performance-wise: I'm more than happy with what I get - of course you can get a better-performance PC for the same bucks. But I'm happy.

antwan

[Igorrr]

Through work I have extensively used IBM/Lenovo Thinkpad and Dell Latitude laptops. I wouldn't recommend Dell. The last models I used were D610 and they are very fragile. Currently I use a Thinkpad R51, where R models are the cheapest Thinkpads, which fell down already 3 times (YES I am THAT clumsy) and never happened anything (not even a HD crash). The Dell not having fallen down once I had to have the mainboard exchanged 2 times.

I never used Mac, but then again I'd never buy a laptop that does not come with a clit/nub navigation. I'm just too much used to that... I can't handle touchpads.

[noise2sine]

hello,
i'm planning to buy a new laptop, and obviously a crucial question came to my mind:

Window vista or Xp pro ? the thing is that with my budget i can offord a laptop with 4gb ram but will i be able to use this 4Gb with XP pro? and if i use Vista ,will my software (usine,ableton live,and many freeware) will work? and the motu 828mkII driver? a friend of mine told me that if the host is working fine under Vista, all the plug ins will work too.

thank you!!!!

[nay-seven]

hello
i use Usine + a big set of vst plugins
on 2 vista pc ( one laptop ) , no problems here
sp1 has solved all problems for me , specially the slow copy for files , some drivers..
vista need ram , that's right but with 4 giga , it's ok

[senso]

Don't forget that a 32 bits system only 3GB are managed...

[noise2sine]

thank you so much for yr advices !

i will check this out

[Golcondio]

I'm ashamed to say that I've given up on the whole windows XP+bootcamp+usine: no matter what (I disabled EVERYTHING not crucial), performance was abysmal and I got more and more frustrated.

I'm now using Logic 8 under Mac OSX Tiger and love it; Mainstage makes me laugh, it's a nice toy but I'd swap the cool 3d interface with Usine's modularity every day, but since there is no concrete hope for a Mac version of Usine it will make do...
I'm still proud of having bought a Usine license, even though I don't use it now: Olivier needs all the support he can get!

[moody33]

Hi !
I plan to buy a laptop this week for usine only.

My question is: is the graphic card is important regarding sound ( stupid question?) ? The MSI seems to have a beter graphic card but less cpu power. Any advice between these 3 laptop below? ( of course, I prefer a 15.4' screen, the last asus is 17').



1- ---- Asus M51SE-AS018C --------

* Processeur Intel® Core™2 Duo T8300,2.4GHz
* Chipset Mobile Intel® PM965 Express + ICH8M
* Mémoire 3 Go DDR2 667 MHz
* Disque dur 250 Go SATA
* Ecran 15.4" WXGA+ Résolution 1440x900
* Vidéo ATI Mobility™ Radeon® HD 3470


2--- MSI GX600-062 ---

* Intel® Core 2 Duo T8100 ,2.1 GHz
* Chipset Intel® 965PM Express
* Ecran 15.4' WXGA+ Cristal Bright Display (1280x800), compatible Dual View
* Vidéo NVidia® Geforce 8600M GT, 512 Mo VRAM, 1280 Mo Turbo Cache
* Disque dur 250 Go SATA 5400 tours/min
* Mémoire 3072 Mo (1x1024 + 1x2048) DDR2 SO-DIMM
* Graveur DVD Super Multi (+/-R; +/-RW; RAM) avec support double couche



3 ------Asus F7SE-7S036C --------


* Processeur Intel® Core™2 Duo T8300, 2.4GHz 3 Mo
* Chipset Mobile Intel® PM965 Express + ICH8M
* 3 Go DDR2 667 MHz (2Go+1Go)
* 250 Go SATA 5400 trs/mn
* 17' Color Shine (WXGA+ 1440x900)
* Vidéo ATI Radeon HD3470 256 Mo / 1024Mo HyperMemory
* Caméra de 1,3 mégapixels
* DVDRW Super-Multi Double Couche LightScribe

Edit : I add a laptop to the list: it doesn't have bluetooth...so bye bye wiimote !

----------Toshiba Satelite A200-25C ----------


* Processeur Intel® Core™2 Duo T8100,2.1GHz
* Mémoire 2 Go DDR2 667 MHz
* Disque dur 320 Go
* Graveur DVD Super Multi Double couche
* Ecran 15.4'' WXGA (1280x 800)
* Vidéo ATI Radeon HD2600


Thanks.

[senso]

the graphic chipset is important especialy in 2D. But it's not like in a game. Avoid the Intel built in graphic chipset.
Personally I'd prefer take ASUS (I have 2 Asus at home)
the 1 has too much screen resolution, for stage utilisation.
so the N°3?

But if you can find a 9300, Memory 800 MHz, a and 4Go it better...

[moody33]

But if you can find a 9300, Memory 800 MHz, a and 4Go it better...

Thanks for advice Senso, but my budget was to small for a higher processor.
I've buy the MSI GX600-62 yesterday. It have an overclock feature ( not test with usine yet).

I have better performance than ever . I'm still under Vista but I want to test it before passing a day or two to downgrade to XP ( I hate installing and searching drivers) . I've find this webpage to optimize Vista if anyone want to take a look: http://zikmao.net/#/optimiservista/2718798 If you know other tips, let me know.

I've also buy a TC electronic Konnekt 6. A little budget ( 250 euros) firewire sound card with great preamp ! My microphone is happy and my Ashbory Bass too! I really like the sound and the reverb include in it.

However, I've glitch under vista when buffer size is set to 256 samples. But it works quite well with Asio4all. I will make better test later.

I'm really thinking about XP...but I'm still asking myself if the Turbo Mode ( overclock feature )and the laptop in itself are compatible with XP ( I 'm not a geek master at the moment, I need to improve this part of me) .

I wish I could make good sound during my holidays ( far from cities and peoples , with the birds and the trees, the rocks and the silence ! ). If you know any beautiful nuns... give them my adress !

[moody33]

Quick Edit:

1-The Turbo Mode seems to Rock! At 50 % CPU under usine, if I engage it, i win near 10-13 % power ( CPU goes near 37 -40 %).

2-The TC electronic drivers are not good , even at 512 samples, lot of glitch. But I have a good 256 samples size latency with asio4all without any problem .

[senso]

I've find this webpage to optimize Vista if anyone want to take a look: http://zikmao.net/#/optimiservista/2718798 If you know other tips, let me know.

thanks for the link
PS:unfortunately in french...

[moody33]

thanks for the link
PS:unfortunately in french...

I know..sorry for those who don't understand french.

[La Tenaille]

Hello
I've bought a HP 6820s (Core 2 duo T8100, 17" screen, numeric pad integrated, 540€) and a best connectivity firewire expresscard (TI chipset, 40€). It works fine with a RME fireface 400 and Usine