akai APC-40: cheap monome!

amiga909 · Unread post by **amiga909** » 15 Jun 2009, 10:00

monomulator is a free MaxMSP monome emulator patch, previously for the padkontrol, now for the APC-40!
http://www.synthtopia.com/content/2009/ ... or-monome/

I feared that u need MaxForLive to be able to control APCs behavior, now it seems standard Max can do it too. really want to know if Usine could replace Max for that purpose and u could make a ableton-like clip matrix all within Usine (for muting, record on/off audio/midi patterns, etc.?)???
Akai hasnt published a midi implementation chart, as it seems...

and to get rid of the propietary-shit labels, here an inspiration:

amiga909 · Unread post by **amiga909** » 15 Jun 2009, 11:51

actually it should be pretty easy (simple midi messages; no sysex, no non-midi stuff) to control the APC!

from max forum:
"Using the midiin/midiout objects:
The top left button on the 5x8 clip control grid is 144 53 1, where 144-151 is the entire top horizontal row, 53-57 is the vertical row going down (the next row down in this case is 54), and 1 is the velocity. The bottom Clip Stop row is 52.

The Velocities are as follows
1 - Green
2 - Green Flashing
3 - Red
4 - Red Flashing
5 - Orange
6 - Orange Flashing

7-127 Are all green."
http://www.cycling74.com/forums/index.p ... msg_174338

amiga909 · Unread post by **amiga909** » 15 Jun 2009, 21:23

http://createdigitalmusic.com/2009/06/1 ... handshake/

very good resource page.
i am not totally sure what the labelling means, but it should be eas y to figure it out, when i get my filthy hands on it in europe

23fx23 · Unread post by **23fx23** » 15 Jun 2009, 21:38

cool, i guess the only pb remains live to outputs the clip infos, actually live doesn't send midi infos to a virtual midi port to know if there is a clip or not, it seems it will send it to the apc however, so must be possible to catch it..

amiga909 · Unread post by **amiga909** » 15 Jun 2009, 22:36

23fx23 wrote:cool, i guess the only pb remains live to outputs the clip infos, actually live doesn't send midi infos to a virtual midi port to know if there is a clip or not, it seems it will send it to the apc however, so must be possible to catch it..

yeah, imho, this is what the handshake is about (check the link in my last post). i assume Live receives+sends a certain sysex pattern and if the handshake was successfull Live will output all the infos you mention.

23fx23 · Unread post by **23fx23** » 15 Jun 2009, 22:47

wooo that would mean eaven without apc could request the infos maybe mmmm you were right about good old school midi

just hope they didn't made some weird protect with changing messages as i heard, rumors, rumors, best is to check,
no apc here

amiga909 · Unread post by **amiga909** » 16 Jun 2009, 10:41

23fx23 wrote:wooo that would mean eaven without apc could request the infos maybe mmmm you were right about good old school midi
just hope they didn't made some weird protect with changing messages as i heard, rumors, rumors, best is to check,
no apc here

yeah, i am positive that we'll be able to eg. make an APC-like custom Usine interface in a bidirectional way (means: Usine interface would always know which Live clips are on/off/recording/empty/)!!
myself, i dont use Live, but the APC is a very good controller and i want it for my own purpose - tricolored buttons, a dream came true!

23fx23 · Unread post by **23fx23** » 16 Jun 2009, 16:06

fractal got it, hey fractal u got to make the hack work with usine!!!!

amiga909 · Unread post by **amiga909** » 05 Jul 2009, 12:20

coz akai seems not to be able to release a midi implemention chart, u might like this

23fx23 · Unread post by **23fx23** » 05 Jul 2009, 13:14

well done amiga!

amiga909 · Unread post by **amiga909** » 05 Jul 2009, 18:19

sorry, forgot to say: just posted a link!

http://www.andykyte.com/apc40midimap.jpg

23fx23 · Unread post by **23fx23** » 05 Jul 2009, 18:21

yup well done anyway

ethnix73 · Unread post by **ethnix73** » 06 Jul 2009, 12:29

My bass player should receive is APC40 shortly. I will try to make some testing during this summer....

amiga909 · Unread post by **amiga909** » 06 Jul 2009, 18:24

btw: the best ressource for apc hacking still seems to be:
http://createdigitalmusic.com/2009/06/1 ... handshake/
+ the forum posts below the super guide.

some more notes:
- a guy posted a sysex string that starts the handshake with Live, i guess

- it should not be hard to light up the apc buttons. form what i understand u need to switch channels per row in the picture above... not totally sure if the apc returns incoming messages on its output thu - however, Live seems to do that and the apc should not output its input, i guess (what i mean: if u feed midi data into a bcr2000, it will also output this data; the ohm64 controller allows different midi params for input and output control for this reason)..
- dam... apc still isnt on stock...

cant wait anymore!!

23fx23 · Unread post by **23fx23** » 06 Jul 2009, 19:21

arf last year I spent so much monney in a zero8, otherwise I would go to the apc too...need to resist...or sell the zero...
(if someone is interested in a korg zero8 let me know, quasi unused in a wood rack, nice piece of gear too, paid 1700, can go down to 1000 euros with the rack if it's for an usiner, i don't use it much cause not easy to transport since i don't have a car anymore)..)but really interested how to get the message from live, gonna try thoses sysex mess also when i ll have a bit of time,
not sure i will spent more money with live also, gonna try the full usine setup, btw as you said the apc is nice even without live if we manage to control it from usine, wich is certainly the case..

ethnix73 · Unread post by **ethnix73** » 27 Jul 2009, 18:35

I've done a first try with the APC and Usine. Thanks to my bassist

Encoders, switch (on the left of the APC track control, device control...and solo/cue,record/arm,activator) and, and controllers are directly useable, and are updated whith the remote option. Did not try to save a project and re-open it to see if they are updated, but if you move your knob within Usine, the corresponding remote encoder is updated.

The main difficulty was with the pads. We didn't managed to put the APC in dumb, as described by Gio on the create digital music article.
Remote doesn't work because APC receives the message too fast: You press your pad, your switch (for exemple) is activated in Usine, the information is sent back to the APC. Ok. But when you release your pad, it's lighting off...
You can control the pads with a create midi message (note on), and choosing the velocity according to the desired color. Two ways to have the pads staying activated on the APC:
1)you've got to use datadelay module.
2) we've linked our switch in Usine to the Inlet "create" of the module create midi message, and the midi out. It's working, but if you do it for the 56 pads, you might experience some kind of midi overflow.

So here is first try...without the dumb mode, it's not as usefull as it could be because the pads does not work without a trick, who should overload the midi out...

To be continued

amiga909 · Unread post by **amiga909** » 29 Jul 2009, 15:55

thanks for exploring, ethnix

APCs still seem to be out of stock, here...

dont think the midi bandwidth should be a major problem with 56 midi creators. its more about how much messages they emit per second. as calculated earlier u can blow up a midi transmission with 2 cc knobs (or 1 pitchbend wheel) turning wildly as fast as possible - but buttons are just on/off, not continuous.
56 midi creators will foremost raise the RAM usage (and CPU too). yet i believe, not dramatically.

ethnix73 · Unread post by **ethnix73** » 29 Jul 2009, 18:36

In the second solution, sending continuously 56 note-on could overload midi out i believe. You've got to send continuous message or delay the message in order to work

lio1001 · Unread post by **lio1001** » 20 Jan 2011, 01:03

Hi,
I wanted to know if it's possible to control "Usine" with the APC 40. Because there is no driver with the AKAI...
So if it's possible what I have to do?
Thanks for your answer...
Lio

gurulogic · Unread post by **gurulogic** » 20 Jan 2011, 07:58

From the Akaia product page

"Can I use the APC40 or APC20 with other programs?
Both the APC40 and APC20 were designed to be controllers for Ableton Live. That said, you can use it in other programs but you will have to manually map it out in the other programs. Akai Pro will not be issuing any MIDI control templates for other DAWs and programs. If you do manually map things, a DAW with the learn feature in MIDI mapping mode will be easier to map than one without. You cannot change the MIDI note numbers and CC numbers that your APC is assigned to."

I don't have an APC40 but it seems like the Akai should appear as a midi input option and that it should be easy enough to learn a midi control from the Akai to a Usine interface object?

nay-seven · Unread post by **nay-seven** » 20 Jan 2011, 08:25

yes , as said gurulogic, first thing to do is to check in the global setup ( ctrl+F5 ) /midi in if your APC40 appear as a device
then if it's ok, choose it as midi in and activate the trace option,
you'll see some message in the console ( black window near the dashboard)

gthibert · Unread post by **gthibert** » 26 Feb 2011, 20:07

Nice. I'll try with my APC.

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akai APC-40: cheap monome!

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